New rules that will affect all who, from time to time use scrap yards..

[trev]

Christ, the plumbers are going to go ape-****...

Most take the old cylinders/pipework etc as part payment...

And the part payment goes into their beer fund, meaning George Osborne doesn't get a cut which makes him unhappy. Vince Cable on the other hand "forgets" to declare a couple of hundred thousand quid of income and gets a smack on the legs and told he's a naughty boy.
Must be nice to have that problem eh guys? where you can forget that much cash.
We're all in it together though, My backside

 

[sparks1973]

And the part payment goes into their beer fund, meaning George Osborne doesn't get a cut which makes him unhappy. Vince Cable on the other hand "forgets" to declare a couple of hundred thousand quid of income and gets a smack on the legs and told he's a naughty boy.
Must be nice to have that problem eh guys? where you can forget that much cash.
We're all in it together though, My backside

well Trev...its up to the media to offer a gentle reminder to the audience from time to time as to the antics of the vince cables of this world then......or the floodgates will open again won`t they......notice the civil servants (who were claiming and dodging in the same salicious manner) managed to get away with it....

 

[Guest111]

Typical,I think they are frightened of dealing with the pikeys so they go after everyone else,round here there was railway cable and manhole covers going missing like you wouldn,t believe,anyway I was having a chat with a mate of mine who,s a cop and he was saying that they were getting grief from upstairs as they had been round all the scrapyards and couldn,t find it.Well I owed him a favour and had been in a certain yard when a load of dodgy stuff had come in,so I pointed him in the right direction with a brief explanation of how it worked he passed it on to his bosses and guess what they did?Nothing!

 

[sparks1973]

see thing is here n all......as soon as some street furniture stuff comes in.....out come them bottles and before long its all been cut up.....cant identify it then....

 

[Guest111]

see thing is here n all......as soon as some street furniture stuff comes in.....out come them bottles and before long its all been cut up.....cant identify it then....

In the yard I was in they phone up when they are on the way in with a dodgy load and then they bury it under a big pile of scrap so when the law turn up its well hidden cause they aint gonna move a big pile of iron to see whats under it.

 

[JD6400]

You already do, have a look at the requirements and you'll find you (like all other electricians/plumbers/etc) need to register as an upper tier carrier.

As for the new rules, well if it costs me a few quid to gain a few hundred then it's fine by me. It will reduce the theiving scum's opportunities to offload their ill gotten gains, and mean that the tatters rolling around will need to register and get insurance. Sure some will find a way round it, but it will make life more difficult for them.

As for the tax angle, well as the scrap cable or whatever that gets weighed in by tradesmen is technically someone else's property which they have been allowed to take away for their own personal gain, then surely they can't complain too much at having to hand over a few quid to be allowed to carry on with it? It's a perk, not a right.

If you take into account the increase in copper prices over the last few years, then deduct the tax you'll pay on it, you're still into a handsome profit for very little effort.

Or you could see it as being double taxed on a already expensive commodity which you have already brought and paid for !
I don't know about others but the lions share of our scrap is from off cuts or old stock that we clear out every so often , all of which has had its taxes already paid by use !!!
Now don't get me wrong it is still well worth the trouble of sorting / processing it , but when it starts getting you in the deep with HMRC , i think it will be time to say stuff the environment and skip it instead , or start letting the the travelling callers that drop by to help you clean up , have it and burn it off in a Field instead !

 

[sparks1973]

In the yard I was in they phone up when they are on the way in with a dodgy load and then they bury it under a big pile of scrap so when the law turn up its well hidden cause they aint gonna move a big pile of iron to see whats under it.

well ...i suppose if they were determined enough they could tell em to get the magnet hooked up to the dragline and get em to lift it......lol....there again maybe not Phil...:smartass2:

 

[UNG]

If you take into account the increase in copper prices over the last few years, then deduct the tax you'll pay on it, you're still into a handsome proffit for very little effort.

Pity you can't deduct the handling costs before taking the tax off

I don't carry any waste, its a commodity in my eyesoliceman:

Isn't copper a recyclable commodity waste is what you dump because it has no value or use

 

[electric will]

I know it'll cost us a bit of tax weighing in all the old scrap but if this is in forced properly then surely it's going to be a good thing.
wont affect me because I always declared the scrap money!

 

[oldtimer]

Think its a catch all here ie the scrap dealer cannot do a lot of cash jobs the "piky" as you say has to go legit ie cannot take benifits and cash as well .

What makes me angry is the low life steal the bronze war memorial of guys who died for this worthless piece of land plus any scrappy caught buying it has to pay to re-enstate then a BIG fine

 

[sparks1973]

I know it'll cost us a bit of tax weighing in all the old scrap but if this is in forced properly then surely it's going to be a good thing.
wont affect me because I always declared the scrap money!

no..it wont be a good thing Will....
think about it....this scrap has been taxed already....so whats it supposed to be now then...tax the little `perks` in life....i`m bloody sick of it..
if the only motivation to deal with metal theft is to find a way of taxing the scrap value (and i suspect it is)...then its crap and should be stopped before its even got going...
so it`l start with just a teeny weeny bit of tax....then when the government thinks its all clear to go ahead...it will.....and up and up the tax will go...a bit like fuel...and as it will be on a percentage....well, can you see the price of copper going down anytime soon.....
mark my words..its a scam...and theft practiced on a larger scale than any old time metal thief ever practiced......

 

[saveloy]

In my local rag that some people have been prosecuted for giving out false details as the scrappy makes a note of all vehicle regs numbers.

I'd love to know what offence was committed when someone gave false details to a scrappy. As far as I am aware it is only the police to whom you have to give your details when requested. I am not a lawyer however and am happy to be corrected.

 

[grantr37]

I suppose I'll need a waste carriers licence next?

actually you do, and its about £800 and a load of paperwork to apply, as well as other licences for storage etc.....and they can reject your application just because they feel like it......you need such and such a classification of storage facility with such and such drainage and storage space etc....


I have heard of a lot of people being pulled over on the road and asked for a waste handlers licence, they say it is to stop fly tipping but its just another way to control you and take your money...do you think they actually care about fly tipping when they let the country get into the state it is in with rubbish everywhere and run down abandoned buildings all over.....factories and agricultural site pumping out all sorts of chemicals?? they want to pick your bins up once every 2 weeks.....but if you drop a banknote they can charge you with littering......

 

[grantr37]

Hi all, hope your having a good month and hope this news doesn't spoil it a little.
Unsure if many of you are aware of some information I found out recently which may affect some of you if not all from some time or another.
I have been overseas for a while and not had to use scrap yards to weigh in cut offs for a coupe of years.
Iwent last week to one and was told I needed an account, for this I needed photographic ID, proof of address and my reg number.
I opened an account and was paid.
I chatted to the dealer who told me he has heard on the industry grapevine that as of dec 3rd it will be illegal for scrap yards to make cash payments for scrap metal, they can pay by cheque or BACS only.
Any person caught dealing , buying in cash faces penalties and up to 6 years imprisonment.
The government has not announced it yet but these rules will come into effect Dec 3rd.
So, in a nutshellell from December any scrap you weigh in will be traceable and come end of year, HMRC will be wanting their cut.
Another blatant move by the establishment to tax the crap out of something else, so if you have anything to sell, do it before December.
hope this helps anyone who hasn't heard about the changes.
Again my apologies if your as outraged as I was when I heard this.

paying tax on material that you already bought and paid sales tax on ....





I can see one of two things happening ...

(1) Waste handlers Licence = money........+capital gains tax ......if a business scrap disposal, VAT and corp tax.....


(2) local "authority" secure skips springing up for people to "dump" their copper in as well.... just like bottle banks and can skips......they will expect everybody to sort and clean it then give it in for free, possibly imposing legal penalties on anybody caught "disposing of commodity grade materials in the general waste stream" ie not recycling all of it but binning in protest.....next it will be the cash for gold shops getting registered details of sellers for taxation purposes disguised as other things.....



There's rules on capital gains tax that mean selling an item you already bought and personally own outside of a business (your own personal things)for personal reasons such as being short of tangible assets (ie physical cash to pay your mortgage) leads to obligations to pay further tax in the form of gains tax........even selling a car can make you liable, and although not actively pursued at the moment under certain levels of value, will probably be pursued with rigour in the near future..



you can assume that any metal will end up going through the same channels, transferred to europe then shipped out to the far east, it will just be a few cronies taking the lions share of the money for carrying out scrap handling and processing for the government and the rest will go in tax....


bottle skip

paper bins

can skip

copper skip

old jewellery skip...

 

[UNG]

(2) local "authority" secure skips springing up for people to "dump" their copper in as well.... just like bottle banks and can skips......they will expect everybody to sort and clean it then give it in for free, possibly imposing legal penalties on anybody caught "disposing of commodity grade materials in the general waste stream" ie not recycling all of it but binning in protest.....next it will be the cash for gold shops getting registered details of sellers for taxation purposes disguised as other things.....

Whatever happened to taking your pop bottles back to the shop and getting money back I remember the days when a discarded bottle was pounced on like it was money collect enough and it was a nice little earner

There's rules on capital gains tax that mean selling an item you already bought and personally own outside of a business (your own personal things)for personal reasons such as being short of tangible assets (ie physical cash to pay your mortgage) leads to obligations to pay further tax in the form of gains tax........even selling a car can make you liable, and although not actively pursued at the moment under certain levels of value, will probably be pursued with rigour in the near future..

If you own a car or cars that are appreciating in value then you must be doing well. With capital gains tax you only pay tax if the value of the capital asset has increased over the purchase price and the first £10,600 of gains are exempt (2011 - 12 tax year )

 

[sparks1973]

(2) local "authority" secure skips springing up for people to "dump" their copper in as well.... just like bottle banks and can skips......they will expect everybody to sort and clean it then give it in for free, possibly imposing legal penalties on anybody caught "disposing of commodity grade materials in the general waste stream" ie not recycling all of it but binning in protest.....next it will be the cash for gold shops getting registered details of sellers for taxation purposes disguised as other things.....
yep...they`v already said that the `cuts` and whatever else they have in store are going to `bite deeper`....

 

[oldtimer]

Cant understand this paying tax twice when you buy the cable the wholesaler pays tax on his profits you then pay tax on your profits as this is the supply chain

 

[imago]

Speaking personally, the vast majority of the cable I weigh in is from the '60s '70s and 80's. So the double tax issue doesn't apply to that. Nor does it apply to off-cuts for me, if I buy a roll of cable for a job then I charge it to the job.