No pics sorry............

[Baddegg]

Went to view a kitchen refit this week, new kitchen and new rfc circuit dedicated to the kitchen, have a look at the CU and whilst inspecting I see that the 2 lighting circuits, up & down, are both wired with the same 1mm 3&E cable (pre 2005 cable)
Red as line to down mcb, yellow to up mcb, blue to neutral bar and earth to earth bar,
I am relatively new to this game but I’ve never seen that before and the customer says she’s never had any problems with it,ask for any old paper work and the cert (won’t mention the scams name) for a CU change doesn’t mention it but then it also says all IR readings were perfect ha ha!

 

[buzzlightyear]

Red as line to down mcb, yellow to up mcb, blue to neutral bar and earth to earth bar,

that is wrong ,using both up stairs and down on the neutral and earth .they need separating .and rewiring .

 

[Baddegg]

That’s what I explained to her but she declined,not sure there’s much I can do after that,thought I’d share though just wish I’d got some pics,

 

[buzzlightyear]

That’s what I explained to her but she declined,not sure there’s much I can do after that,thought I’d share though just wish I’d got some pics

who did the referb ?

 

[Octopus]

Both at the board ..... needs investigating imho ....

 

[Baddegg]

According to the certification,a local building firm to me, registered with a scheme, I have stressed to the owner that it’s not right and needs changing but as I say she’s not interested as it’s never given her any problems....has anybody seen this before and what would you do in this situation?

 

[westward10]

You see this a lot in commercial /industrial installations across three phases but there is a requirement for a linked protective device to be employed to protect the neutral.

 

[FatAlan]

What were you actually called there to do? EIC on the new circuit, EICR?

 

[Baddegg]

No neither of them, I run a small home improvement company, the customer wants a new kitchen fitted but also wants the kitchen rewired and put on its own dedicated RFC, at the moment it just on the down RFC, so before I commit to the new circuit I wanted to inspect the existing installation,load,no or circuits etc and found that....
To be fair other than that there’s not any problem with it, theres only 5 circuits on the CU

 

[Baddegg]

Thanks westward, going to be honest that’s well above me as I only do domestic ( I don’t pretend to be a real spark ha ha) but am always looking to learn,what sort of device would you employ in that situation to protect the neutral? I’m not suggesting implementing it in this situation but am just interested

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thanks westward, going to be honest that’s well above me as I only do domestic ( I don’t pretend to be a real spark ha ha) but am always looking to learn,what sort of device would you employ in that situation to protect the neutral? I’m not suggesting implementing it in this situation but am just interested

imo, you need the service of a qualified spark .

 

[Baddegg]

Never confessed to being as knowledgeable as others buzz, I thought Id come on here to share my experience and continue building my knowledge and I have to say the vast majority of people on here seem ok with helping. I have never claimed to be any more than a “domestic installer” and if I’m being honest have no interest or inclination to be, what I do have is an avid interest to learn from where ever and whom ever I can,it’s extremely easy to throw out a statement like that over a keyboard but I feel very unjustified in this instance,who do you assume uses and views these forums? I think the vast majority are “unqualified sparks” looking for advice and expansion of their knowledge, just out of interest what would you do as a “qualified spark” in that situation?
My advice was it isn’t right and needs sorting but I’m happy to take any constructive advice from anyone generous enough enough to give it,

 

[KennyKen]

Guys are not going to throw knowledge out to unqualified people. It’s the reason we serve a 4 year apprenticeship. Sounds harsh but I’ve had it bite me before when giving “Friendly Advice” the muppet I gave said advice got his wires crossed (No pun intended) and blew a main fuse.

 

[Baddegg]

Did you not ask any questions during your appentiship?
Never said i was going to do anything,although under the current uk system I am more than “qualified” to do the works and notify them where needed, (I didnt create the system)
The thread was more a chance to share something I’ve come up against and see if anyone else had experienced it.
Westward mentioned that you occasionally come across this setup on commercial and industrial installations and that a linked protective device is required to protect the neutral i was merely curious as to what that may be,I apologise to anyone who thinks I’ve over stepped the mark with that question.
Please don’t judge everyone by the same standards as the person you rather foolishly gave advice to, hope your professional indemnity is up to date?
As you are a “qualified” spark I’ll ask you what would you do in the situation? Just to be clear I’m not asking you for electrical advice, as shocking as it may be to you I feel more than competent to do the works,

 

[KennyKen]

I’m fully licensed buddy and after “Foolishly” giving advice I’ll leave it at that. Apprentice’s are different. They are not “Boil on the Bag” sparkies

 

[Baddegg]

Not doubting your experience buddy,that’s really the reason us “boil in the bags” are here wouldn’t you say?

 

[Baddegg]

Not doubting your experience buddy,that’s really the reason us “boil in the bags” are here wouldn’t you say?
Not sure what apprentices have to do with this,are you implying that if someone served an apprenticeship they would know all the answers?
I’ll leave it at that,it’s a shame that it seems easier to insult people on here than just to help,

 

[paullyons]

There’s a lot of people on this forum so far up their own a**. The way some of you talk is as though you were born with all this vast knowledge that makes you far superior to the rest of use. The handful of you that consider yourself to be superior should just make yourselves a WhatsApp group n play amongs yourselves so that other can get on and give/receive advise the way the forum was intended.

 

[littlespark]

If the OP has the relevant knowledge and quals to be a "domestic installer", that's good enough for the work he's doing, and the schemes have approved it, so be it.

This question may have come from a "real" electrician (apologies to OP) so his background shouldn't be an issue.

Q. Is using a 3 core and earth right for serving both lighting circuits?
A. No, it isn't.

I would assume even a domestic installer would need to test their installation on completion, so that's when you write down comments on existing installation.

 

[Baddegg]

Hi little spark
No need to apologise, as stated I don’t consider myself an electrician in the fullest sense of the word,I do have all relevant qualifications and scheme membership with PL and a fair bit of experience within the domestic market which is where I intend to stay,this was just something I’d never seen before.
Many thanks for the advise on comments on the existing installation that is what I intended to do but as a relatively new “boil in the bag” never heard that one but did make me chuckle, was really just looking for reassurance to that effect