Proving dead at a pendant -,no cpc

[Mikegh]

All these procedures for proving dead in the UK are mostly new to me .

We were expected to be competent to work safely with the training we were given, I don't recall ever being taught to prove dead as such

So is there a set procedure for proving dead in this scenario with approved devices ,I'm scratching my head?

 

[Dustydazzler]

The proper device

Martindale VIPD138 Voltage Indicator and Proving Unit Kit : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Martindale VIPD138 Voltage Indicator and Proving Unit Kit : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

www.amazon.co.uk

my device

Fluke T5-1000 Open Jaw Electrical Tester with Continuity and Current Tester, 1000V : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Fluke T5-1000 Open Jaw Electrical Tester with Continuity and Current Tester, 1000V : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[ipf]

Basically, just test before, prove live, isolate and prove dead, I suppose, with correct instruments.

You're also proving that your test instrument operates correctly.

 

[LukeD]

Basically, just test before, prove live, isolate and prove dead, I suppose, with correct instruments.

You're also proving that your test instrument operates correctly.

This .

 

[brianmoooore]

Proving a circuit is dead is fairly fundamental to safe working on electrics! I'm fairly sure it was covered in your training.

 

[timhoward]

Attachment might help you...it's mainly common sense, check instrument works using a reliable means, check instrument gives the answer you want, check instrument still works.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I think part of the point the OP is making is one that I often refer to. The procedure drummed into people about proving the tester, testing the circuit, then proving the tester again, makes it feel very safe and official. But if there's no CPC to corroborate an L-N test, and it turns out that the neutral is broken (for example) you can do a good job of convincing yourself that the circuit is dead using a 2-lead tester when in fact both wires are well and truly live. A quick wave of a Voltstick would warn you about that but it's not an accepted part of the procedure and many would not do it, or trust the red warning of the Voltstick to signify danger, because it's considered 'unprofessional'.

In the country of the floating, the one-probed voltage indicator is king.

 

[pc1966]

I think Lucian has correctly interpreted the OP's point - without the CPC you can't really establish "dead" the same way you can when it is present as done in basic training.

However, being a bit more practical in most cases of a pendent light it would be quite hard to get a shock if L & N are not showing volts and you have no other reference (i.e. CPC, metal conduit, etc) to pass current to.

True, if you have a metal ladder on damp concrete that could present a risk and even 10mA might cause an accident due to falling off the ladder in surprise, but hopefully all sparky go for fibreglass ladders these days?

 

[timhoward]

Ah - I see the point now!
(My Fluke T130 will as as a one pole indicator too, one of the reasons I like it)

 

[Mikegh]

You need the backup of the voltstick or the single point contact tester

 

[littlespark]

Some testers will trip an rcd device if testing between line and cpc….. so that solves the “is it live?” issue…. It isn’t now!


my first voltage tester was a lampholder with red and black singles hanging out of them.
One journeyman had 2 x 240v lamps in series which he used to test 415v!

(yes, I’m using 240 and 415 instead of 230 and 400…. It was that l

 

[Mikegh]

Some testers will trip an rcd device if testing between line and cpc….. so that solves the “is it live?” issue…. It isn’t now!


my first voltage tester was a lampholder with red and black singles hanging out of them.
One journeyman had 2 x 240v lamps in series which he used to test 415v!

(yes, I’m using 240 and 415 instead of 230 and 400…. It was that l

You learn more that way with crude instruments than fancy gadgets

I can remember the old solenoid voltage testers

They had a plunger that moved up depending on the voltage and were guaranteed to trip an Rcd

I wish I had one now I'd probably find an application for it troubleshooting which some of the modern technology can't do

 

[Mikegh]

I think part of the point the OP is making is one that I often refer to. The procedure drummed into people about proving the tester, testing the circuit, then proving the tester again, makes it feel very safe and official. But if there's no CPC to corroborate an L-N test, and it turns out that the neutral is broken (for example) you can do a good job of convincing yourself that the circuit is dead using a 2-lead tester when in fact both wires are well and truly live. A quick wave of a Voltstick would warn you about that but it's not an accepted part of the procedure and many would not do it, or trust the red warning of the Voltstick to signify danger, because it's considered 'unprofessional'.

In the country of the floating, the one-probed voltage indicator is king.

My overall thinking

A voltstick or a single point contact tester trumps any 2-wire tester and procedure ultimately

 

[timhoward]

My overall thinking

A voltstick or a single point contact tester trumps any 2-wire tester and procedure ultimately

I think that's a generalisation too far - to my thinking it depends where you are and what you are doing.
If you are at a distribution board and want to confirm the polarity is correct and the entire thing is safely isolated a 2 pole tester is the right tool. The circuit that fed the pendent without the cpc can be confirmed dead at the distribution board too.
If however you are confronted with two wires and no cpc then I agree a single pole (or a double pole that detects voltage when just one pole is connected) will do a better job. Or a volt stick.
I'm not selling my two pole testers!

 

[nicebutdim]

Ah - I see the point now!
(My Fluke T130 will as as a one pole indicator too, one of the reasons I like it)

I'm pretty sure that all current Fluke 2 pole testers have that single pole phase test function.

 

[pirate]

My T150 has that

 

[timhoward]

My T150 has that

Complete tangent but do you ever use the resistance measurement thing on it? I've always wondered if it's actually worth having that model, but argued with myself that if I'd end up dragging out the MFT anyway for accuracy reasons....

 

[Mikegh]

I think that's a generalisation too far - to my thinking it depends where you are and what you are doing.
If you are at a distribution board and want to confirm the polarity is correct and the entire thing is safely isolated a 2 pole tester is the right tool. The circuit that fed the pendent without the cpc can be confirmed dead at the distribution board too.
If however you are confronted with two wires and no cpc then I agree a single pole (or a double pole that detects voltage when just one pole is connected) will do a better job. Or a volt stick.
I'm not selling my two pole testers!

I was exaggerating to make a point

 

[nicebutdim]

I thought people paid extra for the T150 to avail of its vibrate function.

 

[pirate]

Frankly, the resistance measurement is a bit of a faff, it switches off after about 15 seconds, so by the time you have established a good connection it's gone...I used it on an oven element recently, but my cheapo multimeter was much easier to use. Also, it has very limited range, so really not very useful, imho.