Renewables

S

sedgy34

Hi Guys!!

Got a potential customer got 4 BIG houses behind some private gates each house costs 4,000 per year on gas and electric.Hes got a (paddock) few acres on the back of his garden (very nice) its classed as farm grazing land he wants me to put together a project so he can have a mix of renewables im going to suggest as follows:
1, 4kw pv system on ballast trays wired back to each house for 21p fit rate
2,A 50kw pv system as he will have a 3phase main put in the paddock with a seperate meter and m,pan 15.2pfit rate
3, a small scale wind turbine

The aim is to generate as much as posssible to offset his annual costs
your thoughts and ideas are welcome

CHEERS IN ADVANCE GUYS
 
OK great so you can save him some electric but what are the plans to save some gas?
The best way to use electric to heat a home (in my opinion) is to use a heat pump, however unless the house in very well insulated and has either oversized radiators or under floor heating then it will not work so well.
 
Cider said:
OK great so you can save him some electric but what are the plans to save some gas?
The best way to use electric to heat a home (in my opinion) is to use a heat pump, however unless the house in very well insulated and has either oversized radiators or under floor heating then it will not work so well.
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yeh have done one of them 5 years ago very efficient too, not sure if we can convert as the houses are complete. thought about suggesting solar thermal too for his hw.
 
Have you also considered voltage optimisation to help reduce his electricity costs? relatively easy to install and they dont break the bank.
 
cogsey133 said:
Have you also considered voltage optimisation to help reduce his electricity costs? relatively easy to install and they dont break the bank.
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yeh we were fitting the voltis hd units but they were tripping old and new rcd,s in the cu,s voltis suggested change the rcd cause its change over cycle time was within 24ms same as rcd. we stopped installing them after that.
 
I have found the vphase units very easy to install and have had no problems with them. really interested to hear you issues with voltis units as this is an area i am keen to get more into.

Cheers
 
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cogsey133 said:
I have found the vphase units very easy to install and have had no problems with them. really interested to hear you issues with voltis units as this is an area i am keen to get more into.

Cheers
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the voltis units save 18% they fit inline after the meter and have a 63a breaker i normally use a clamp meter to see what the house is using as your downgrading to this 63a, my problem was only with the hd voltis unit and others had the same problem The normal 230v units i believe have been ok.the hd unit is for 237vto 253v.
 
SolarCity said:
Sounds great if it does. Do you have any real world data to back this up or are you going by manufacturers predictions?

I'm really keen on the idea of these units but I'm a bit skeptical.
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CHECK IT OUT YOURSELF!!! marshall tufflex (voltis units)
 
Manufacturer's quoted savings of up to 18%

(Mines saving me around 7-8% based on monthly consumption figures compared to the same period 12 months ago - not terribly scientific but I am happy it's working nonetheless)
 
Yes, I was pleasantly surprised. With so much scepticism of these units on this site I figured the only way to find out if they really work or not was to try one. As far as I'm concerned, they work.

Not suffered any tripping issues either and I still can't work out why a unit fitted upstream of any RCDs should cause them to trip.
 
JulianC said:
Yes, I was pleasantly surprised. With so much scepticism of these units on this site I figured the only way to find out if they really work or not was to try one. As far as I'm concerned, they work.

Not suffered any tripping issues either and I still can't work out why a unit fitted upstream of any RCDs should cause them to trip.
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is yours the HD unit or normal as i said earlier its omly the hd units that voltis have had problems with
 
I think I'll have to install one on my own home and monitor it.

I'd love to see some more real world data to back up manufacturers' claims though. (perhaps from someone that doesn't immediately lose their chin when you ask them for it....)
 
SolarCity said:
I think I'll have to install one on my own home and monitor it.

I'd love to see some more real world data to back up manufacturers' claims though. (perhaps from someone that doesn't immediately lose their chin when you ask them for it....)
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we didnt get as far as monitoring to prove 18% as the tripping problems occured our customers didnt want the nuissance tripping so we took them out i have a spare was going to put in my house but just havnt got round to doing it yet.
 
I can not see why you had any tripping issues, as they are fitted upstream and just drop the incoming voltage down from (in the case of the one I have fitted) from 245v to 220v.
It is running a GSHP and garage block and is working fine.
Maybe there was a fault in the house and the voltage change caused the RCD to trip?
 
Earthstore said:
I can not see why you had any tripping issues, as they are fitted upstream and just drop the incoming voltage down from (in the case of the one I have fitted) from 245v to 220v.
It is running a GSHP and garage block and is working fine.
Maybe there was a fault in the house and the voltage change caused the RCD to trip?
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A FAULT!!! how could that be when the rcd didnt trip previously, the solar circuit didnt go on the rcd side either you can call marshall tuflex they may be able to shed some light on why there units are tripping rcds
 
sedgy34 said:
Do you have rcd protected circuits in the distribution board
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Yes. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to not trip.

Can't see the Voltis being the cause of any tripping. It is installed upstream of any RCDs so I do not see how it is possible to influence their operation.
 
sedgy34 said:
A FAULT!!! how could that be when the rcd didnt trip previously, the solar circuit didnt go on the rcd side either you can call marshall tuflex they may be able to shed some light on why there units are tripping rcds
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Where was your PV connected? Before or after the Voltis.
I am just trying to help.
 
The Pv was connected same day as the Voltis unit was fitted then re occurance of tripping throughout different days through the following week we disconnected the Voltis unit and left the Pv in situe the tripping hasn't happened since hence the Voltis being taken out.
 
I put it down to the imbalance of voltage the rcd didn't like when it changed to its 220v cycle causing the rcd to pick it up and it's cycle changeover is 24 ms same as the tripping time on the rcd
 
The Voltis is installed after the meter and before the distribution board it's got a 63a breaker on it
Connection is Feed in from meter load out to db
Pv was in a spare way in db 20a circuit
 
I think that we may have found the problem, the PV must be connected in before the Voltis unit, as your PV was on a spare way it was connected after the Voltis unit.
That would trip the RCD as the PV would be trying to export back through the transformer in the Voltis unit.
It should be Incoming meter>PV system>Voltis unit>CU.

I hope that makes sense and helps also.
 
Earthstore said:
I think that we may have found the problem, the PV must be connected in before the Voltis unit, as your PV was on a spare way it was connected after the Voltis unit.
That would trip the RCD as the PV would be trying to export back through the transformer in the Voltis unit.
It should be Incoming meter>PV system>Voltis unit>CU.

I hope that makes sense and helps also.
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thanks that makes perfect sense!!!! but why would you fit a small 2way consumer unit if there are 2/3 spare ways in the DB not knowing the rcd will trip when its all installed with the voltis unit
 
sedgy34 said:
thanks that makes perfect sense!!!! but why would you fit a small 2way consumer unit if there are 2/3 spare ways in the DB not knowing the rcd will trip when its all installed with the voltis unit
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Because then the PV would be connected after the Voltis, so any export would be trying to go back through the Voltis unit, which it can not do.
I believe it is quite clear in the instructions about fitting PV with a Voltis (I may be wrong).

You would not fit your 16a PV MCB on the RCD side just because there was a space, would you?

I hope this helps.
 
Earthstore said:
Because then the PV would be connected after the Voltis, so any export would be trying to go back through the Voltis unit, which it can not do.
I believe it is quite clear in the instructions about fitting PV with a Voltis (I may be wrong).

You would not fit your 16a PV MCB on the RCD side just because there was a space, would you?

I hope this helps.
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i have a voltis unit on the van i will wire it in my house this weekend i also have a 4kw system on my roof i will see if your correct on your assumptions i will report back monday on this (im intrigued) as voltis manufacturer say otherwise
 
The way I see it is yes the system reduces voltage which works great for lighting although they be a bit dimmer, some loads surly will not work as well, a couple of our electricians have been sent on the vphase course but they are not convinced either way.

Lighting is the biggest consumer of electricity in most households and I am sure this is where the biggest saving is made, your new TV / computer monitor with less voltage will reduce bills but maybe with less brightness within the screen.

Other loads will require the same energy no matter what, the only difference is you reduce voltage and the current increases, Wattage in these scenarios will be the same or am I missing something.
 
Glen Powell said:
The way I see it is yes the system reduces voltage which works great for lighting although they be a bit dimmer, some loads surly will not work as well, a couple of our electricians have been sent on the vphase course but they are not convinced either way.

Lighting is the biggest consumer of electricity in most households and I am sure this is where the biggest saving is made, your new TV / computer monitor with less voltage will reduce bills but maybe with less brightness within the screen.

Other loads will require the same energy no matter what, the only difference is you reduce voltage and the current increases, Wattage in these scenarios will be the same or am I missing something.
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as im aware the voltis does everything through the mains the v phase you have to take circuits out and put them in that unit and connect back to the DB
 
sedgy34 said:
as im aware the voltis does everything through the mains the v phase you have to take circuits out and put them in that unit and connect back to the DB
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The results will still be the same in my opinion, you cannot create electricity that is not there, instead you will reduce the perfomance of some items to save money, in other words an eleven watt bulb may work at 9 watts (buy a 9 watt bulb), a hover working less efficiently (buy a brush).

Basically these systems are sold to us without us thinking, there is a consiquence in these systems and the laws of physics says so, if you are reducing your electricity consumption you are reducing the performance of the product that require that electricity.
 
Glen, up to a point you are correct.
However, if your mains power is coming it at 245V or even up to 253V, then you are wasting power.
If you reduce that power to 220V everything will work fine, your motors and bulbs should last longer too.
The only electric item that will not save you money though is a heating element, like a kettle, because for the water to reach a said temperature it will have to run for longer, therefore using the some amount of electricity.
PS the VPhase goes into bypass at 20A as the Voltis (much easier to install) goes into bypass at 60A, which makes it more suitable for domestic use.
Make sure to get the HD version though.
I hope this helps.
 
Glen Powell said:
The results will still be the same in my opinion, you cannot create electricity that is not there, instead you will reduce the perfomance of some items to save money, in other words an eleven watt bulb may work at 9 watts (buy a 9 watt bulb), a hover working less efficiently (buy a brush).

Basically these systems are sold to us without us thinking, there is a consiquence in these systems and the laws of physics says so, if you are reducing your electricity consumption you are reducing the performance of the product that require that electricity.
Click to expand...

maybe depends how you disect it, but with voltage optimisation all uk appliances dont need 230/240v to work they will work on 220v but without any voltage optimisation unit installed the appliances will automatically draw maximum voltage thats there,hence dropping the voltage and saving an extra on electricity
 

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