Running electric to island.

[Steviecuk]

Hi all.

I'm currently building an island in my kitchen which will contain a gas hob. I've cut a trench about 60mm wide from the edge wall to where I want everything popping up.

Plumber will be fitting a 22mm gas pipe wrapped in Denso tape before it is filled in with screed and then tiled.

My question is can I run my twin and earth in conduit in the same trench as the gas? I was thinking maybe with a spacer in there so the screed will create a barrier between them? Obvs each respective trade will do the work but just getting ideas if I need to did another bloody channel.

Thoughts and ideas please.

Thanks. S.

 

[timhoward]

My question is can I run my twin and earth in conduit in the same trench as the gas?

Yes.

The On Site Guide says two things about gas pipes and separation.
Min distance from supply equipment, meters, consumer units etc. (150mm)
Min distance from switches, sockets, and electrical supply and distribution cables (25mm)
It also talks about interposing an insulating material if you can't do that.

It doesn't sounds like you have either of those cases, and in any case you are in conduit.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I would run singles in a 25mm flexible conduit rather than T&E easier to replace if needed, pulling one out attached to the new length of single.

 

[Steviecuk]

Yes.

The On Site Guide says two things about gas pipes and separation.
Min distance from supply equipment, meters, consumer units etc. (150mm)
Min distance from switches, sockets, and electrical supply and distribution cables (25mm)
It also talks about interposing an insulating material if you can't do that.

It doesn't sounds like you have either of those cases, and in any case you are in conduit.

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately It's just been blown out of the water by the plumber. It's against gas regs apparently. Took bloody ages to dig that channel. And the mess... OMG the mess. Will have to do another I guess.

 

[James]

Can they provide a gas reg? Or is it just that they don’t want to do it that way?
it might be worth asking another gas engineer

 

[davesparks]

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately It's just been blown out of the water by the plumber. It's against gas regs apparently. Took bloody ages to dig that channel. And the mess... OMG the mess. Will have to do another I guess.

Ask the plumber to show you where in the gas regulations it says that this isn't allowed.

This page from the gas safety register says that 25mm separation is required or an insulating barrier (conduit complies as an insulator, also the layer of denso tape should count) Can we help you? Part 2 - Registered Gas Engineer - https://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/technical/can-we-help-you-part-2/#:~:text=Q%3A%20What%20are%20the%20distances,in%20BS%206891(1).

 

[Steviecuk]

Can they provide a gas reg? Or is it just that they don’t want to do it that way?
it might be worth asking another gas engineer

To be honest I didn't ask for the reg. just said it was against them and assumed it would be right. But if you think differently I'll definitely ask another as it'll save so much work.

 

[timhoward]

To be honest I didn't ask for the reg. just said it was against them and assumed it would be right. But if you think differently I'll definitely ask another as it'll save so much work.

Actually I wouldn't make a rod for your own back unless the gas fitter will be the one filling the hole (which I doubt!)
Just go along with it, let him do his gas thing.
Then sort out the electrics in line with the electrical guidelines which definitely allow this.
Then fill the hole.

I've just asked my pal the (Gas safe) gas man and he agrees that if insulated it doesn't even begin to be an issue.

 

[Steviecuk]

Ask the plumber to show you where in the gas regulations it says that this isn't allowed.

This page from the gas safety register says that 25mm separation is required or an insulating barrier (conduit complies as an insulator, also the layer of denso tape should count) Can we help you? Part 2 - Registered Gas Engineer - https://registeredgasengineer.co.uk/technical/can-we-help-you-part-2/#:~:text=Q%3A%20What%20are%20the%20distances,in%20BS%206891(1).

Sorry Dave didn't see that you'd also replied with the link. Bang on. I'll have a word with him, he might have got the wrong end of the stick when I was talking to him. Cheers guys.

 

[Steviecuk]

Actually I wouldn't make a rod for your own back unless the gas fitter will be the one filling the hole (which I doubt!)
Just go along with it, let him do his gas thing.
Then sort out the electrics in line with the electrical guidelines which definitely allow this.
Then fill the hole.

I've just asked my pal the (Gas safe) gas man and he agrees that if insulated it doesn't even begin to be an issue.

Wow all so helpful thank you very much. Sounds good to me. Thank you.

 

[davesparks]

I suspect from the fact that they are going to wrap the pipe in denso tape that the plumber is either older or trained by an older plumber and hasn't kept up to speed with current methods.

As far as I know denso tape isn't the preferred method any more, the preference is plastic coated copper pipe.

 

[littlespark]

Drop in a conduit with a draw rope instead of cable at this stage…
Then he can’t complain.


I do agree with everything above, though.

 

[Dustydazzler]

once did a raft of million pound new builds where the plumber laid his gas to the island and the sparks would tie wrapped a 2.5 to the gas pipe for the isalnd sockets. plumbers came back and pulled all the cables out

no wonder sparks hate plumbers

 

[DPG]

once did a raft of million pound new builds where the plumber laid his gas to the island and the sparks would tie wrapped a 2.5 to the gas pipe for the isalnd sockets. plumbers came back and pulled all the cables out

no wonder sparks hate plumbers

Tie wrapping your cables to the gas pipe is a bit naughty though!

 

[Mike Johnson]

I should think that electricians hating plumbers is reciprocal.

 

[pc1966]

I would say put in decent size conduit (25mm or bigger, maybe some 40/50mm twinwall) and a draw rope as @littlespark suggests. You have both a barrier between cable and pipes, and if a cable has a problem (or you need a different arrangement) then you can pull through a new set later.

I really hate it when folks fix cables in to plaster or concrete

 

[Mike Johnson]

Close to what I said in post 3, I forgot that conduit in the UK does not come with the draw wire installed as standard.