UK Signing off apprentices test cert

[MrHolt]

I have been asked to sign off my apprentices electricial test cert. We work in the portable building sector and carry out a pre delivery inspection and test report. Although somewhat capable when I am there, these will be cabins that I will not be checking myself just signing off his sheet.

Is this legal?

 

[Pete999]

I have been asked to sign off my apprentices electricial test cert. We work in the portable building sector and carry out a pre delivery inspection and test report. Although somewhat capable when I am there, these will be cabins that I will not be checking myself just signing off his sheet.

Is this legal?

Well if you haven't been involved in the installation, or at least supervised the Apprentice and his work, how can you sign off on the certificate?

 

[MrHolt]

Well if you haven't been involved in the installation, or at least supervised the Apprentice and his work, how can you sign off on the certificate?

Well if you haven't been involved in the installation, or at least supervised the Apprentice and his work, how can you sign off on the certificate?

My thoughts exactly. We have an electrial team leader who normally carries out this practice which I have put my thoughts across about but he is off and I was expected to carry on his process.
I was made to feel like this was an acceptable process, wondered if anybody knows if this is even legal in the first place.

 

[Intoelectrics]

If the apprentice is competent enough to carry out the inspection & test un-supervised then why do you need to sign them off?

 

[jackhammerJIM]

If the apprentice is competent enough to carry out the inspection & test un-supervised then why do you need to sign them off?

How do you think a crown court prosecution would react to a test certificate signed off by an apprentice if there was a death or injury related to this installation ?

 

[MrHolt]

If the apprentice is competent enough to carry out the inspection & test un-supervised then why do you need to sign them off?

Not sure how to prove a apprentice is competent enough to test the installation in court. Is there a way to do that?

 

[Pete999]

My thoughts exactly. We have an electrial team leader who normally carries out this practice which I have put my thoughts across about but he is off and I was expected to carry on his process.
I was made to feel like this was an acceptable process, wondered if anybody knows if this is even legal in the first place.

Is your company registered with one of the CPS outfits (NICEIC and the likes? are there any qualified QSs ((Qualified Supervisors)) working for the company?)
Not sure on the legalities, but you signing off work you haven't been involved in, in any way is inherently wrong, you are being used as a Scapegoat. whilst the team leader is away, get your bosses to sign the certs off see what their reaction is.

 

[MrHolt]

Is your company registered with one of the CPS outfits (NICEIC and the likes? are there any qualified QSs ((Qualified Supervisors)) working for the company?)
Not sure on the legalities, but you signing off work you haven't been involved in, in any way is inherently wrong, you are being used as a Scapegoat. whilst the team leader is away, get your bosses to sign the certs off see what their reaction is.

We are part of the MPBA which I think is the ECA. I will ask the boss to sign them off wouldn't mind an early dart anyways lol.

Thank you for all the quick replies

 

[Intoelectrics]

How do you think a crown court prosecution would react to a test certificate signed off by an apprentice if there was a death or injury related to this installation ?

My point being, if the inspection and test is carried out by an unsupervised non competent / non qualified person then how can the inspection & test be valid in the first place? So how would the court view that?

The signing off is to document that the "competent / qualified" person responsible for the inspection & test cert can verify that the inspection and test has been carried out to the regs and the installation is of a satisfactory/non satisfactory condition. If the person doing the I&T is not competent/qualified then they should not be carrying out the I&T un-supervised.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

My point being, if the inspection and test is carried out by an unsupervised non competent / non qualified person then how can the inspection & test be valid in the first place? So how would the court view that?

It is an excellent point . The court would throw the proverbial book .

 

[MrHolt]

My point being, if the inspection and test is carried out by an unsupervised non competent / non qualified person then how can the inspection & test be valid in the first place? So how would the court view that?

I understand

My point being, if the inspection and test is carried out by an unsupervised non competent / non qualified person then how can the inspection & test be valid in the first place? So how would the court view that?

The signing off is to document that the "competent / qualified" person responsible for the inspection & test cert can verify that the inspection and test has been carried out to the regs and the installation is of a satisfactory/non satisfactory condition. If the person doing the I&T is not competent then they should not be carrying out the I&T un-supervised.

I understand and with you, my team leader would say that he had been supervised unfortunately which is completely wrong but very hard not to prove

 

[Intoelectrics]

I understand and with you, my team leader would say that he had been supervised unfortunately which is completely wrong but very hard not to prove

This sort of thing happens all the time and predominately goes unchecked because hiccups are rare, so very rarely people get into trouble over it. The problem arises when something serious happens and cases go to court. At this point correct, valid "legal" documentation becomes the focal point.
This is when the prosecutor points the finger and asks "why did you sign off a document knowingly that you could not confidently, without doubt verify the contents?" and so on...

 

[Strima]

This would be for the QS or electrical supervisor to carry out. The apprentice should be supervised until deemed competant through assessment and mentoring then subject to regular audits until the management are happy.

 

[littlespark]

Testing should be undertaken by someone who has knowledge, understanding and EXPERIENCE. By definition, the apprentice has very little experience.

 

[Pete999]

Not sure how to prove a apprentice is competent enough to test the installation in court. Is there a way to do that?

Not it if they aren't qualified

 

[Loki]

As an apprentice about to qualify, during my portfolio of evidence I did testing with my mentor & he checked & signed off the certs even though I have my C&G 2391-52

 

[davesparks]

The certificate should be signed by the person doing the work, or the supervisor or person with overall responsibility if more than one person is involved in the work.

For scheme members (niceic etc) this is normally then reviewed and countersigned by the qualified supervisor.

If an apprentice has been deemed competent by their mentor to carry out the work unsupervised then they must also be competent to sign the certificate.

 

[Pete999]

As an apprentice about to qualify, during my portfolio of evidence I did testing with my mentor & he checked & signed off the certs even though I have my C&G 2391-52

As it should be