Smoke/heat alarms EICR

[DrinGONatoR]

Hello All

So the scenario is; turn up to an EICR in a house, everything is good apart from seeing the smoke alarm on the ceiling with the head removed and the plastic cover missing that goes over the connections.
Obviously not a C1 so out of the question
Would you code it as a C2 as it’s a damaged accessory and is safety equipment and obviously a fire risk
Would you C3 it and say and improvement is required.
Would you not even mention anything
Or would you just make a note of it on the cert?

 

[littlespark]

Missing plastic cover over terminals is a C1 if live screws exposed.

Ok, physically out of reach, but mentioning it as a C1 or C2 ensures it gets fixed and the detector being reinstated

 

[ImpededLoop]

I'd give it a C2 for the missing terminal cover.

 

[Lister1987]

I'd give it a C2 for the missing terminal cover.

C2 560.10.

 

[DrinGONatoR]

Missing plastic cover over terminals is a C1 if live screws exposed.

Ok, physically out of reach, but mentioning it as a C1 or C2 ensures it gets fixed and the detector being reinstated.

The issue I have well not so much an issue mor like an argument I have is myself an the QS are both saying different point of view.

I say C2 and that kind of guarantees the smoke alarms get replaced/installed as a remedial.
The other guy says, the smoke/heat alarms Don't fall under BS7671.
Just make it a C3 and put a note on the cert.
And I totally agree with 560.10
If your the last person that's looked at the installation and "noticed" the smokes/heats weren't connected/damaged is it not your responsibility to replace or the very least report it to prevent a fire.

I said Grenfel comes to mind.

 

[littlespark]

The issue I have well not so much an issue mor like an argument I have is myself an the QS are both saying different point of view.

I say C2 and that kind of guarantees the smoke alarms get replaced/installed as a remedial.
The other guy says, the smoke/heat alarms Don't fall under BS7671.
Just make it a C3 and put a note on the cert.
And I totally agree with 560.10
If your the last person that's looked at the installation and "noticed" the smokes/heats weren't connected/damaged is it not your responsibility to replace or the very least report it to prevent a fire.

I said Grenfel comes to mind.

True, the detectors themselves don’t come under bs7671, but the connection in the base will, as it would if it was a light fitting.

How would a broken fitting be coded, if it had screw connections exposed?

 

[DrinGONatoR]

True, the detectors themselves don’t come under bs7671, but the connection in the base will, as it would if it was a light fitting.

How would a broken fitting be coded, if it had screw connections exposed?

Glad to see there's more people on my side

 

[brianmoooore]

The issue I have well not so much an issue mor like an argument I have is myself an the QS are both saying different point of view.

I say C2 and that kind of guarantees the smoke alarms get replaced/installed as a remedial.
The other guy says, the smoke/heat alarms Don't fall under BS7671.
Just make it a C3 and put a note on the cert.

I find it quite worrying if this other bloke is a QS! This is basic stuff, and he's definitely wrong. The only debate is C1 or C2.

 

[Lister1987]

I find it quite worrying if this other bloke is a QS! This is basic stuff, and he's definitely wrong. The only debate is C1 or C2.

C2, you'd be hard pushed for C1 unless when you got there thr detector head was off and just thr baseplate exposed. With thr detector Insitu you'd have to remove it to get to the live parts, which puts it in potentially dangerous and a C2.

But yea 560.10 is your start point for 10, then you can pull in related parts of 5839-6 (if you have it and knowledge of it - that said most OEMs (AICO definitely) give put reference books with thr same stuff in but without the eyewatering wedgey BSI pricetag so ignorance (from a electrician POV) is no excuse

 

[nicebutdim]

C2, you'd be hard pushed for C1 unless when you got there thr detector head was off and just thr baseplate exposed. With thr detector Insitu you'd have to remove it to get to the live parts, which puts it in potentially dangerous and a C2.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, that's exactly the situation stated in the OP.

Edit: First sentence states exactly that...

So the scenario is; turn up to an EICR in a house, everything is good apart from seeing the smoke alarm on the ceiling with the head removed and the plastic cover missing that goes over the connections.

 

[brianmoooore]

C2, you'd be hard pushed for C1 unless when you got there thr detector head was off and just thr baseplate exposed. With thr detector Insitu you'd have to remove it to get to the live parts, which puts it in potentially dangerous and a C2.

Depends on the make and how the head is held in place. An Aico needs a tool to remove the head, and with the head in place, the live contacts are inaccessible, whether or not the terminal cover is in place, so there's an argument that it shouldn't be coded at all.

 

[Lister1987]

Depends on the make and how the head is held in place. An Aico needs a tool to remove the head, and with the head in place, the live contacts are inaccessible, whether or not the terminal cover is in place, so there's an argument that it shouldn't be coded at all.

True but you report on what you see at that time, no head on and no cover is a C1, arguably with that head inlce you wouldn't know the cover wasn't there; Schrödinger's Smoke Alarm if you will.