Sockets additions Live

[cliffed]

Just your thoughts on this one,had the plasterers moaning about live sockets.
Added a couple of sockets to an existing ring main,to keep the power on in the house I’ve connected & taped the cables & neatly coiled into the flush box.
The customer knows the reasoning behind this,& will talk to the plasterers,& advise them to switch the marked Mcb off.
The remarks from the plasterers were not too good,& you can imagine the stick & bad names floating around, pardon the pun there.
They done their bit,& no incidents of electric shock,but just bad mouthing.
Would you have done the same, or maybe I’m at fault.

 

[SJD]

When I've had to leave live cables in a flush mounting box, which will be plastered, I've fitted a metal cover plate that is cut slightly smaller than the box, so it recesses in as far as the lugs. So there is no access to the cables inside. The cover plate cut from thin sheet metal with tin-snips, and I retrieve them afterwards to reuse.

 

[westward10]

It is not up to the plasterer to ensure any exposed wiring is safe. Marking which mcb to turn off is not acceptable nor is leaving live conductors exposed in a back box just to keep the power on.

 

[pc1966]

Why not use these so sockets are working and safe to plaster around:

Sockitz Ltd – Electrical Safety Shields for Electricians, Plasterers, Painters & Decorators.

www.sockitz.com

 

[goasis]

Have also done that in the past. Plasterers will moan about anything, like to get the excuses in early as to why the finish is rough.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I always used to simply put connector block on the cables and coil up in the box , did it this way for years & years

then one day I had a plasterer have real moan saying on a different job he got a shock off a back box while plastering

so from that day I always put a blank plate on the box which had any live cables in

 

[GBDamo]

Always leave them live that way the muckspreaders pay a little more attention what they're doing with their towels.
[automerge]1596309465[/automerge]

Always leave them live that way the muckspreaders pay a little more attention what they're doing with their towels.

Trowels, flaming auto correct

 

[telectrix]

I always used to simply put connector block on the cables and coil up in the box , did it this way for years & years

then one day I had a plasterer have real moan saying on a different job he got a shock off a back box while plastering

so from that day I always put a blank plate on the box which had any live cables in

i've always done that if the cables have needed to be energised to complete a circuit. some years ago, i fitted the sockets on 4 outlets with yoozy boxes. thinking easy for the plasterer and also safe. i turn up next day. all 4 socket faceplates covered in muck and all 4 yoozy boxes broken.

 

[davesparks]

You need to ensure that there is no way that the plasterer, or anyone else can be put at risk.

There is no perfect solution to this problem, other than leaving the circuit isolated which is sometimes not possible in the real world.

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Connectors on the wires,then taped and then cardboard from the box the sockets came in,cut to size with scissors and hooked behind the lugs of the box.Jobs a good un

 

[littlespark]

As far as health and safety is concerned, all you can do is isolate.

your leaving live cables with only basic insulation. Even behind a bit of cardboard or plastic... plasterer is throwing water all over the place and using a sharp metal object. If they’ve had an incident before, I’m not surprised they complain.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I dont think i can ever recall expecting a plasterer to work on a live socket regardless of any tape, bags or anything else. I would expect to isolate, prior, keeping disruption to a minimum by supplying temp power from other sources.
The house i am currently working on , I isolated the section of the ring to keep some power on for his mixer etc. There are nearly always a work around, more puzzled about how its common to leave the power on. What possible scenario would that be ? The only socket in the place ? ...lol

 

[James]

Just isolate the ring and provide them with a builders supply on a trailing socket. Simples!!

 

[Pete999]

When I've had to leave live cables in a flush mounting box, which will be plastered, I've fitted a metal cover plate that is cut slightly smaller than the box, so it recesses in as far as the lugs. So there is no access to the cables inside. The cover plate cut from thin sheet metal with tin-snips, and I retrieve them afterwards to reuse.

Circuit feeding sockets should be isolated and locked off until plasterers are finished.

 

[SJD]

Circuit feeding sockets should be isolated and locked off until plasterers are finished.

In the example I gave, they were not sockets, but light switches, which would be very inconvenient in an occupied property where the other lights on the circuit need to remain in use. It would be a week or two before the plastering is done.

I would also add that I include a large label in the outside of the metal cover that the circuit inside is live.

 

[Midwest]

Of course those stating the circuit should isolated & locked off are correct. But that's not easily achieved in some if not most domestic properties. I've read many times of members criticising other members for not leaving householders with power, some houses have only one RF.

Suppose the only correct way, would be to return to site just before the plasters start, and isolate, but then you might have to keep returning when they want to mix up some more muck!

I've used Yoozybox & blank plate like @telectrix before now, but either found them smashed, or the plasterer bumping his gums, that they got in the way.

What about Blank it?

 

[cliffed]

Just isolate the ring and provide them with a builders supply on a trailing socket. Simples!!

Yea, this actual situation happened in a kitchen area, ring main supplying power & for lounge area.
Obviously client still living in re-furb.

 

[James]

On some rare occasions, I have left people with an energised circuit that fall short short of the standards required. This is normally due to an out of hours call out where the correct part is not available. I am not daft and understand that at times we do not rigidly follow all the rules at all times.

However, putting the plasterers life at risk by leaving poorly protected cables live and within an inch of his wet steel trowel is a step beyond where I would be comfortable.

This is planned work, so make a plan.
Look for other options
Lighting circuits, can they be isolated at the rose for the room in question, if not maybe in the adjacent room.

Worst case, some temporary lead lights for the areas that need to be lit.

If someone is seriously injured or worse due to your failure to isolate or protect cables then the court is not going to accept that you left stuff on so the tv could be left plugged in to its original socket.

 

[davesparks]

For ring circuits you can change the OCPD to a 20A device and disconnect whichever section of the ring is necessary. The rest of the circuit will remain live as two radials.

 

[James]

For ring circuits you can change the OCPD to a 20A device and disconnect whichever section of the ring is necessary. The rest of the circuit will remain live as two radials.

Agreed,
Like I say, planned work.
MAKE A PLAN
There are many scenarios that you might come across
It may at times be more work or a little inconvenient,

but gone are the days when you could get away with taping up cables and putting a warning live cables note on them (if it was ever trueley acceptable)

With some thought, it is not required to leave hidden dangers around site, we can use our brain to come up with a safe solution.

 

[cliffed]

Ok totally agree,with all,next time,I wii isolate correctly,stop the damn moaning & electrocution

 

[telectrix]

Ok totally agree,with all,next time,I wii isolate correctly,stop the damn moaning & electrocution

they're only muck spreaders FFS. 10 a penny round here. easily replaced.

 

[UNG]

I always tell the plasterers that the cables are live even when they are not in an attempt to stop them filling the boxes and leaving a smooth wall and I have to find and clean out the boxes.
Alternatively it's box extensions and a blank plate fixed with security screws to stop the plasterer getting clever and removing them to make it easier for them, get some moans from the plasterer but am I bothered

Reminds me of a job about 35 years ago wired an 18 gang grid box on a commercial new build all the cables were marked with various nicks to identify them, the plasterer decided the cables were to long and cut them back so he could get them all in the box, the end result when we got back on site was one wall plastered completely flush with the switch box and 2 2g sockets lost in the plaster told the plasterer to find the boxes only to be told that was my job the ensuing argument as I was about to attack the wall with a hammer brought the site agent out of his office, while he was trying to mediate the project manager turned up on site once he was up to speed with the problem he called one of the plasterer's bosses to site once he found out that he was going to be back charged for belling out all the lighting cables and they would have to make good any damage finding the boxes the plasterer was told to get all his tools as he was being sacked with immediate effect

 

[cliffed]

Bit like the artexer filling the ceiling roses up,after he asked for them to be fitted,so he can make a nice swirl around it, how dated is that now.

 

[davesparks]

Bit like the artexer filling the ceiling roses up,after he asked for them to be fitted,so he can make a nice swirl around it, how dated is that now.

Dated enough that he is probably a 'specialist' and charging a lot for making a mess of a perfectly good ceiling, unlike the days when it was all the rage and every plasterer did it.

 

[UNG]

Dated enough that he is probably a 'specialist' and charging a lot for making a mess of a perfectly good ceiling, unlike the days when it was all the rage and every plasterer did it.

It's only become specialist as the artex has killed off most of the plasterers doing it as it contained asbestos possibly up until the late 90's. I knew a few plasterers that died with asbestosis all of them did the textured ceilings and walls without knowing the risks until it was too late

 

[Pete999]

When I've had to leave live cables in a flush mounting box, which will be plastered, I've fitted a metal cover plate that is cut slightly smaller than the box, so it recesses in as far as the lugs. So there is no access to the cables inside. The cover plate cut from thin sheet metal with tin-snips, and I retrieve them afterwards to reuse.

Metal plate, live wires, and Plasterers, a bad mix Mate.