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To those following this thread....

I'm having a mare already. Slight disagreement between myself and the old boy caretaker about what i'm coding the EICR. (he used to be a spark back in the 80's i think, and has done some of the maintenance before he got too old)

Ill not divulge straight away, but simply ask you guys to convince me im not going soft.


Taking the cafe as an example. What would you code, remembering all the large metallic appliances. Kitchen staff, but members of the general public in the seating area in the vicinity of sockets and heaters.

Old circuits are still on BS88 fuses.
Every light on the same fuse.
The 3 phase oven on 3 separate fuses. (although only single phase loads. Loss of one phase isn't going to cause massive problems)

The other distribution boards are much the same.... old bs88's in some places... fuse wire in others.
Some "upgraded" to circuit breakers, but there are very few RCD's across the whole site.... even in the modernised areas.



I don't want to come across as touting for work, but at what point do you have to say, look, this is unacceptable these days.... especially with public being able to access parts of it.
 
You really ought to know that is SY cable.
The fact the public have access to xyz isn't really relevant.
Separate fuses for a three phase oven is fine in fact it would be fine for the majority of circuits.
 
Well FWIW, if its all the correct vintage (which it probably is), not much you can do but code it strictly to BS7671. I have come across similar installs and wrote a separate report on my recommendations, because the Amtech S/W i use is messy when it comes to making a case for upgrade. Last job i recommended RCBOs to all sockets based on, blah, blah and i was pleasantly surprised when they agreed.
 
Nothing wrong with bs 88 fuses as long as they are rated correctly for the cable size. Code 3 for the sockets if they are not RCD protected . Could push to a code 2 if you believe they are being used outdoors. . Why do you think the metal appliance are an issue.
 
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Started with one of the holiday cottages today… and a handful of C3’s already. Nothing too serious.

Non standard set up. 2 cottages adjacent to each. Supplies come from one of the big DBs from the main house. Big DB also feeds public toilets.

From photo you can see SWA coming from main DB into isolator+mcb on right, through meter, for simple monitoring, then into cottage DB

You can get a bus through the holes the tails go through.

Underfloor heating in both cottages is fed from boiler for toilets… so that sw/fuse is live when cottage is isolated, and also on a different phase.

I believe (and will check next week when I do other cottage) that the hard wired smoke detectors are supplied from this cottage, but also feed the ones next door. Which means next door has all 3 phases present.

View attachment 106624
It doesn't matter that there are separate phases it is not a departure.
 
Separate fuses per phase are only a real issue if it can lead to a 3P motor limping along on a single phase and overheating, possibly becoming a fire risk. Normally the motor overload protection should stop that anyway and it is not a likely problem for such a property.

As above, I would follow the BPG#3 guidance which, though less readable now, is still C3 for no RCD in low-risk areas (i.e. typically indoors) and C2 for high risk areas (like out doors or in bathroom areas, etc.)

Lights all one one fuse is a bit dumb, but if loss of light is a serious risk anywhere then having emergency lighting is far more important as it also deals with a power cut.

I don't like SY cable but it is OK for indoor use (not UV tolerant) where the braid is not actually needed for penetration protection (not rated to clear OCPD). Its not really a very useful situation, but not specifically bad if those are not needed. SWA or Flexishield/BS8436 are cables that meet the penetration aspect, though for the foil types it is often only to a modest OCPD let-through like 20A MCB or similar.
 
Lighting circuits across three phases which share a common neutral, quite common in large scale warehouses and factories require linked circuit protection so separate fuses would not be suitable.
 
littlespark - After just over a week you have 808 views. Well done Sir. Folk are reading your posts with interest.

Do you keep a before and after record - written or photo - of the corrections you do for free or billed?

Do you do IR surveillance? ie:

Infrared Electrical Inspection, Electrical Testing Finds Hot Connections - Albany, NY | Infrared Imaging Services - https://www.infraredimagingservices.com/electrical-infrared/

If not then perhaps an added value yet paid for extra to such work as you are doing now? I have found it very useful in an industrial setting.
 
Haha. Well this is awkward…

I’ve just reported #29 as a possible bot / hacked account as I couldn’t see how the content referred to the thread…. But as there has been messages since by the same author, I may have jumped the gun somewhat.

Apologies.
 
Haha. Well this is awkward…

I’ve just reported #29 as a possible bot / hacked account as I couldn’t see how the content referred to the thread…. But as there has been messages since by the same author, I may have jumped the gun somewhat.

Apologies.
Well at this point in time #29 is by @marconi and he is definitely human!
 
Yeah that's worked out a bit unfortunate now that the post had been removed and the numbering changed :)
Still there for me ??

Second cottage to do next week, finish the workshop…. Then start on big hoose!

Better get my running shoes looked out and make sure my Fitbit is charged up.
I’m expecting 20k steps a day!
 
It's cases like this where it's the duty of the Inspector to remember the first principles of the task - is it fit for continuing safe use?

Yes, we use markers and references to various regulations to help us make that decision and that now outdated concept of 'did it meet the regs in place at the time' is thankfully no longer an opt-out, but ultimately it's the experience and judgment of the inspector that's on the line. For example - you IR a circuit buried in an old hollow wall and get a reading of 2.1MOhm, technically that's compliant so not notable, yet to any of us with experience it instantly rings alarm bells and is probably either very old cable at the point of severe deterioration or vermin damage. So now you have to consider continued safe use, not just what's on your meter. And that decision probably isn't just electrical, it's informed by all the other adjacent information around us - is that cable buried in a stone wall or does it likely run up through that roof void full of tinder dry old crispy mice nests...... etc.

It's a responsible thing to do, which is why all these fly by inspection companies boil my pee so much.
 
not come across any spurious readings so far, but I bet the 80/90’s t&e will break down before any bulletproof MICC….
A bad pot would have failed well before now.

The cost of replacing fuse boards when some are built into bigger panels is going to be cost prohibitive, but there are some rcd sockets been fitted in rooms that were used for catering.

Other boards have been changed in the past where the old fuse board has been used as a joint box and a newer CU fitted.

Can’t wait to open than literal can of worms.
 
Unless you had a duff brand/batch of T&E its usual downfall are mice, UV exposure, or mechanical abuse (trapped, nail, etc).

I too would be very weary of IR readings below 10M unless I could identify why!
 
Unless you had a duff brand/batch of T&E its usual downfall are mice, UV exposure, or mechanical abuse (trapped, nail, etc).

I too would be very weary of IR readings below 10M unless I could identify why!
There could be mice… possibly.

It’s a shame when an otherwise great installation with neatly clipped MICC, surface conduit etc gets ruined by a bit of sticky backed mini trunking down the side of a lovely period architrave.
 
Getting well into the workshop today… just the general power and I’ve got issues.

So it’s the white CU I’m testing in the middle.
Top left MEM SW/fuse feeds the cafe, top right feeds the public toilets and in turn, the two holiday cottages.
Bottom left is main sw/fuse “M” turns off everything. And bottom right is busbar chamber that everything feeds off.

Haven’t checked fuse sizes in “M” yet. Cannot isolate white CU without turning off cafe and cottages. Whatever size is in “M” is the OCPD for this white CU. I’ll find out when I can turn off the cottages… there’s guests in just now.

But… from the CU. There’s an rfc with 3 doubles. From this, an unfused spur goes into the shop next door… for another 8 points!
I’ll either suggest fusing down here, or pulling out the spur, extending the cable back to CU and making the shop its own radial circuit.

Workshop and shop also share the lighting circuit. Could do with separating that as well.

Only 4 circuits out of a 5+5 dual rcd board used, so plenty spares.

The 2 RCDs are tripping out at 46 and 62 ms. At x1 I



This is going to take me weeks..... 65CCBA28-ECB6-4461-93F1-55FC544C589E - EletriciansForums.net
 

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