Urgent Advice please

[NellyManjaro]

OK so I've just come to a property to do an EICR... walking around I have found 4/5 C1s with regards to access to live cables... broken sockets and switches etc... there are kids in the house. We have an agreement with the landlords/lady's of the agency we are doing these tests for that we ring them and advise of any repairs as we go along etc (not all but most) now this one has turned around and said I dont want a test doing now because I've told him about the immediate repairs that are dangerous... especially with kids around. The old CU is in the cellar so can e locked off to kids but other rooms can't obviously.

Basically he wants me to leave the property and leave it as it was... can I in good conscience do that?? Especially as he is deffinatley getting charged for the visual inspection now.

What would you do in this situation?? I was taught to get permission off the letting agent and isolate the supply to the property for C1 issues that aren't being resolved. But kids makes things more difficult because I don't think this landlord is going to do things legitimately.

Thanks

FYI these houses we are testing on 99% have never been tested many well in excess of 50 years but the new legislation means they all need testing in rentals

 

[James]

Issue a notice of danger to the agent and the Tennant.
Suggest to the Tennant that they speak to the local housing team urgently for there advice.

 

[Benchaffey]

What are the C1s? Does it actually require isolation of the whole installation? Make safe the C1s so no immediate danger,
Serve a remedial notice with the unsatisfactory cert?

 

[telectrix]

i would make safe any C1's before i left. irrespective of what the landlord wants, either by isolating any C1 defective accessories ( diss. cables from socket and wago ) or isloate a complete circuit. if landlord won't pay for my time for this, at least i can sleep at night, knowing that kids will survive.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Agree. Any C1s could be disconnected or at worst just wrap Some insulation tape all over the offending item and put a ‘do not touch’ sticker on it....

 

[Pete999]

i would make safe any C1's before i left. irrespective of what the landlord wants, either by isolating any C1 defective accessories ( diss. cables from socket and wago ) or isloate a complete circuit. if landlord won't pay for my time for this, at least i can sleep at night, knowing that kids will survive.

If you didn't make safe regardless of payment, you would have been the last person with hands on that particular installation, ergo you would be deemed culpable, should an injury. fire, or death occur, Judge "why didn't isolate the circuits" you "" he wouldn't pay me"" "take him down".

 

[7029 dave]

I do agree with all the above comments, however we are not the electric police. I would 100% be issuing a danger notice getting it down on documentation, also isolating the circuits involved,nobody has the authority to just physically disconnect circuits without customers permission.
Photographs would be taken too of everything as evidence.

 

[Midwest]

I’ve never done EICR’s, but I’m not sure you should be altering peoples property, without permission, even though it’s dangerous. I’m not sure you have a such a duty of care here. You could inform the householder.

If you have your car MOT, and dangerous faults are found, they can’t be rectified without your permission, and the workshop can prevent you from driving it away, whilst being unsafe.

 

[suffolkspark]

Napit have a fillable form for this situation, I've only had to do it once

 

[Midwest]

I’ve never done EICR’s, but I’m not sure you should be altering peoples property, without permission, even though it’s dangerous. I’m not sure you have a such a duty of care here. You could inform the householder.

If you have your car MOT, and dangerous faults are found, they can’t be rectified without your permission, and the workshop cannot prevent you from driving it away, whilst being unsafe.

Oo o pps!

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Switch off the main switch in the board and issue a danger notice ASAP to the letting agent. This is the way to cover your arse, cause if anyone switches that main switch back on with a danger notice in place then they will be in the dock not you.
The moral think to do if it’s a few switches or whatever is just change them and lose the money over a few other jobs.

 

[Strima]

Isolate where possible to ensure safety but try and leave them with some form of power for sockets and lighting etc.

Issue a danger notice to the landlord and letting agent. As this is a rental I would also inform the local council. Cover your bum.

Bill them for the full EICR and issue the paperwork. He initially contracted for an EICR, even if the installation is dangerous and not to his/her liking, tough, they still pay for the report.

If they do not pay within the agreed period start legal proceedings to recover the costs.

Don't give these people an inch, they'll take a mile and get someone killed in the process.

 

[Midwest]

Switch off the main switch in the board and issue a danger notice ASAP to the letting agent. This is the way to cover your arse, cause if anyone switches that main switch back on with a danger notice in place then they will be in the dock not you.
The moral think to do if it’s a few switches or whatever is just change them and lose the money over a few other jobs.

What and leave the family without electricity for essential living? You don't have that power under any legislation.

 

[davesparks]

Carry out a temporary fix however you can, for holes in enclosures or missing DB blanks I normally apply gaffer tape and record as a C2 with a note to explain.

Do not isolate the whole installation without permission, do not isolate anything without permission. You could end up in just as much trouble doing so.
If you isolate a light and somebody trips over in the dark you are liable.
You cannot just switch off the supply to a house, especially not one with children living in it.
[automerge]1596741579[/automerge]

Switch off the main switch in the board and issue a danger notice ASAP to the letting agent. This is the way to cover your arse, cause if anyone switches that main switch back on with a danger notice in place then they will be in the dock not you.

This is completely wrong.
A danger notice will not cover you in this situation. You will be in the Dock if anyone switches it back on and an accident happens.
If you just switch it off then it is not isolated, to make it safe it would have to be isolated.

You will also be in the dock if anyone has an accident as a result of you switching off the power and lighting.

You could find trading standards coming after you as this could be seen as cowboy tactics to force someone into paying for repairs or even some form of extortion.

Plus you have no legal power whatsoever to switch off or disconnect someone's electricity supply without their permission, even the DNO can't just cut a supply off without a lengthy process beforehand.

 

[GBDamo]

If you didn't make safe regardless of payment, you would have been the last person with hands on that particular installation, ergo you would be deemed culpable, should an injury. fire, or death occur, Judge "why didn't isolate the circuits" you "" he wouldn't pay me"" "take him down".

We have no legal authority to work on an installation.*

All we can do is advise and make sure it is all in writing.

If their was any investigation these written records would be the end of any connection between you and the incident, that is unless you missed the fault that caused the incident.

To me it shows the lawmakers crass disregard for human life. An electrical fault may kill a person a gas fault may destroy £millions of property hence gas engineers can lock off and we cannot.

*edit, without the owners consent.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I remember being on holiday in Crete and in our apartment were several live connector blocks within very easy reach. No tape on them no nothing.
i pointed this out to the complex manager, his answer was

‘Just Don’t touch them‘
i said aren’t you going to send someone to sort the live cables out...?

‘nope , just don‘ touch them‘

 

[7029 dave]

We have no legal authority to work on an installation.*

All we can do is advise and make sure it is all in writing.

If their was any investigation these written records would be the end of any connection between you and the incident, that is unless you missed the fault that caused the incident.

To me it shows the lawmakers crass disregard for human life. An electrical fault may kill a person a gas fault may destroy £millions of property hence gas engineers can lock off and we cannot.

*edit, without the owners consent.

Gas engineers have no power to cut the supply without permission, only the gas transporter has that authority.

 

[James]

Gas engineers have no power to cut the supply without permission, only the gas transporter has that authority.

If you turn off or disconnect something to test it, are you obligated to turn it back on or reconnect it if it would pose a danger to life?

 

[7029 dave]

If you turn off or disconnect something to test it, are you obligated to turn it back on or reconnect it if it would pose a danger to life?

You turn off at the ECV thats your minimum , with customer permission you can disconnect any appliance or put a disc in the outlet pipe, if they refuse either, a warning notice is issued ID immediately dangerous even if they give permission the form will be filled in, and the gas transporter advised, they will come to site and have the power to cut the supply off in the street if the customer refuses to comply, they have more powers than the police , they can force entry if needed.

 

[davesparks]

To me it shows the lawmakers crass disregard for human life. An electrical fault may kill a person a gas fault may destroy £millions of property hence gas engineers can lock off and we cannot.

This is not true, we have approximately the same 'power' as the gas plumbers.
If the customer says no then they can't do anything more than switch it off, the difference is that they can then pass it on to the gas equivalent of the DNO who can take action.

Of course they will tell you that they can disconnect the supply and all that, but who really believes what a plumber says?

Electricity is also very different to gas. If you isolate someone's electricity then you leave them without light so they could easily trip over and suffer serious injuries as a result.
Electrical dangers can almost always be reduced significantly with far simpler actions, such as applying gaffer tape over holes in enclosures.