What type of consumer box

[stevenson166]

Hello All, First of all i am not an Electrician just a DIY enthusiast.
I have just built a garden bar shed and have the following in place. Please see images.
Consumer box in the garage fed by the main house supply. Pic shed 5 and shed 6

this then exits the garage by a fused switch

This feed then enters the bar shed and terminates

My question is that i am NOT going to attempt to do this myself, All i want to do is advice on what consumer unit i need to buy so that i can keep costs down. The bar shed will have 6 double sockets and 1 single socket and a light socket, which i intend to have fitted by round conduit.
Any advice greatly accepted.

 

[sinewove]

Hello All, First of all i am not an Electrician just a DIY enthusiast.
I have just built a garden bar shed and have the following in place. Please see images.
Consumer box in the garage fed by the main house supply. Pic shed 5 and shed 6
View attachment 59116
this then exits the garage by a fused switch
View attachment 59117
View attachment 59118
This feed then enters the bar shed and terminates
View attachment 59119
My question is that i am NOT going to attempt to do this myself, All i want to do is advice on what consumer unit i need to buy so that i can keep costs down. The bar shed will have 6 double sockets and 1 single socket and a light socket, which i intend to have fitted by round conduit.
Any advice greatly accepted.

By the looks of the spur in the garage,the most power available in the bar would be 13amps,so any mcbs in the in the shed may be overridden if they are bigger than 10 or 6 amp.So maybe a 10A for sockets and 6A for lighting in a 2 way cu.Hope the cable to the shed is suitable.
Regards,S

 

[ferg]

If it's already fused down to 13A then to save money your electrician could just use a switched fused connection unit at 3A for the lighting.

If it is fused you will have all 6 sockets on a 13A fuse so loading could be an issue depending on what you have plugged in.

 

[stevenson166]

Thanks, I am sure he said it had a 32amp supply but as you have mentioned it is fused at garage exit by a 13amp . Does anyone have a link to a consumer unit i can buy ready for installation

 

[telectrix]

this job needs a bit of a rethink. first you have a RCD in the garage CU, so another one in the shed would lead to problems with discrimination. i.e. a fault in the shed could trip either RCD. and if the whole lot is fed from an RCD protected way in the house, more trouble.

 

[stevenson166]

If its possible to somehow have both the bar shed and garage on the same rcd then thats fine.

 

[telectrix]

simplest way (and cheapest) is as ferg says, wire direct to sockets and fit a FCU (5A) for lights. bear in mind that your max. amperage will be 13A. unless you can replace the 13A FCU in the garage with a 20A MCB in enclosure.

 

[stevenson166]

simplest way (and cheapest) is as ferg says, wire direct to sockets and fit a FCU (5A) for lights. bear in mind that your max. amperage will be 13A. unless you can replace the 13A FCU in the garage with a 20A MCB in enclosure.

So remove the fused outlet and replace with a non rcd enclosure fitted with a 20am mcb ?

 

[sinewove]

simplest way (and cheapest) is as ferg says, wire direct to sockets and fit a FCU (5A) for lights. bear in mind that your max. amperage will be 13A. unless you can replace the 13A FCU in the garage with a 20A MCB in enclosure.

Would,nt you need a 20A dp switch before the 5A FCU to isolate the shed?
S

 

[telectrix]

So remove the fused outlet and replace with a non rcd enclosure fitted with a 20am mcb ?

if the cable to the shed is 2.5mm, then 20A would be the appropriate fuse/MCB

 

[stevenson166]

if the cable to the shed is 2.5mm, then 20A would be the appropriate fuse/MCB

Hi, The cable running from the fused socket in the garage to the bar shed is the following
Electric Cable BS 5467 600/1000V...looks like it fed from the double socket next to it ...see photos...ignore the smaller cable on the outside pic..that is my extension cable

 

[DefyG]

If the armoured cable is 4mm then it could be connected to the socket (assuming the double socket is on a rfc (ring final circuit) protected by a 32A mcb, without any further protective device.
If the double socket is already a 'spur' off the rfc then you need to seek further advice on best way forward.
If only 2.5 sq mm then a protective device will be required (20A mcb!)
RCD protection by one protecting the rfc?
Not sure why there is an IP rated s/fcu in the garage at all?
[automerge]1593463134[/automerge]

Think the armoured cable is 6mm or 8mm

'Thinking' doesn't do it. 8mm is a non standard size so doubt its that.
sq mm refers to the actual cross sectional area of the copper conductor NOT the diameter of the cable/core.

 

[stevenson166]

If the armoured cable is 4mm then it could be connected to the socket (assuming the double socket is on a rfc (ring final circuit) protected by a 32A mcb, without any further protective device.
If the double socket is already a 'spur' off the rfc then you need to seek further advice on best way forward.
If only 2.5 sq mm then a protective device will be required (20A mcb!)
RCD protection by one protecting the rfc?
Not sure why there is an IP rated s/fcu in the garage at all?

Think the armoured cable is 6mm or 8mm
[automerge]1593463068[/automerge]

If the armoured cable is 4mm then it could be connected to the socket (assuming the double socket is on a rfc (ring final circuit) protected by a 32A mcb, without any further protective device.
If the double socket is already a 'spur' off the rfc then you need to seek further advice on best way forward.
If only 2.5 sq mm then a protective device will be required (20A mcb!)
RCD protection by one protecting the rfc?
Not sure why there is an IP rated s/fcu in the garage at all?

If the armoured cable is 4mm then it could be connected to the socket (assuming the double socket is on a rfc (ring final circuit) protected by a 32A mcb, without any further protective device.
Source URL: What type of consumer box - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/what-type-of-consumer-box.187941/ That socket is the last one of the circuit of 4 doubles and is protected by a 32amp mcb

 

[stevenson166]

If the armoured cable is 4mm then it could be connected to the socket (assuming the double socket is on a rfc (ring final circuit) protected by a 32A mcb, without any further protective device.
If the double socket is already a 'spur' off the rfc then you need to seek further advice on best way forward.
If only 2.5 sq mm then a protective device will be required (20A mcb!)
RCD protection by one protecting the rfc?
Not sure why there is an IP rated s/fcu in the garage at all?
[automerge]1593463134[/automerge]

'Thinking' doesn't do it. 8mm is a non standard size so doubt its that.
sq mm refers to the actual cross sectional area of the copper conductor NOT the diameter of the cable/core.

sorry i know for a precise answer i should talk precise sizes

 

[DefyG]

It does help.

 

[stevenson166]

It does help.

Thanks, The Sparky that fitted the cables ...etc wont answer my calls...I think maybe furloughinging or something else has affected him...I did ask what size glands were used for the hot tub cabling which is the same size cable and he said 20mm outdoor SWA Glands...does that throw light on the armoured cable size ? or not ?

 

[DefyG]

No, 1.5 to 6 sq mm cables all use 20mm glands.

If its the last socket of 4 on a radial protected by 32A mcb. The cable supplying the sockets needs to be established as if only 2.5 sq mm there is an issue with the use of a 32A mcb in the first place

 

[stevenson166]

No, 1.5 to 6 sq mm cables all use 20mm glands.

If its the last socket of 4 on a radial protected by 32A mcb. The cable supplying the sockets needs to be established as if only 2.5 sq mm there is an issue with the use of a 32A mcb in the first place

Thanks its a 6mm armoured connected to a mcb of 32a and is the last socket...as regard to radial or ring i am unsure as the trunking runs along all 4 walls and is hard to say unless i remove all the trunking tops....It could start and end in the cu as a ring would

 

[DefyG]

You don't need to do that, a simple test will confirm.
Too many unknowns to say for sure, you really need to get an electrician to check it out properly.

 

[stevenson166]

You don't need to do that, a simple test will confirm.
Too many unknowns to say for sure, you really need to get an electrician to check it out properly.

Really appreciate your help and i will report back to state how things panned out

 

[DefyG]

Good luck with it.

 

[123]

All seems a bit of a strange design, he'd have been better running the SWA back to the Garage Consumer unit and putting the bar on it's own circuit. An MCB in an Rcd protected consumer unit isn't ideal for a distrubition circuit either. If the sockets in the garage are a ring then the fused spur would need to stay, it wouldn't matter if you used 25mm cable, the entire bar area would still be a spur off the ring and the limit for that is just 1 single or double socket.

 

[stevenson166]

All seems a bit of a strange design, he'd have been better running the SWA back to the Garage Consumer unit and putting the bar on it's own circuit. An MCB in an Rcd protected consumer unit isn't ideal for a distrubition circuit either. If the sockets in the garage are a ring then the fused spur would need to stay, it wouldn't matter if you used 25mm cable, the entire bar area would still be a spur off the ring and the limit for that is just 1 single or double socket.

Hi, I am sure it has its own 32amp circuit connected to the garage cu..why it has a fused spur before going outside ??

 

[123]

Hi, I am sure it has its own 32amp circuit connected to the garage cu..why it has a fused spur before going outside ??

Your photo shows a fused spur labelled "Pauls Bar" with the SWA cable heading out of it?

Not sure why it has an IP rated enclosure either given it's right beside a socket that doesn't. Strange setup.

 

[stevenson166]

Your photo shows a fused spur labelled "Pauls Bar" with the SWA cable heading out of it?

Not sure why it has an IP rated enclosure either given it's right beside a socket that doesn't. Strange setup.

After all these comments its bugging me now.. I will isolate leccy 2moz and have a look around the fused outlet

 

[James]

some armoured cable has its size embossed on the outside, every meter. will be something like BASEC CABLE BS123455* 3 X 4SQ MM
have a good look, it might give you a clue as to what cable it is.

 

[stevenson166]

some armoured cable has its size embossed on the outside, every meter. will be something like BASEC CABLE BS123455* 3 X 4SQ MM
have a good look, it might give you a clue as to what cable it is.

It says Electric Cable BS 5467 ce 600/1000 v

 

[James]

pity, some cable manufacturers put the size on too.

 

[stevenson166]

I have taken the covers off today of the twin socket and fused spur. It seems that the twin has x2 twin and earth cables feeding it and then x2 from there feeding the fused spur with the 6mm armoured inside. This then is sent to an opened end (dead) to the bar shed.

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