When does labelling have priority over colour coding??

[Rockingit]

Discuss! This is a Daikin ASHP compressor, as delivered and prior to my install....

 

[buzzlightyear]

Discuss! This is a Daikin ASHP compressor, as delivered and prior to my install....

Just in case you are colour blind. Lol.

 

[loz2754]

The labels take precedence. They're more informative. Until they fall off of course. Good to see they're heat shrunk labelled.

 

[Rockingit]

The labels take precedence. They're more informative. Until they fall off of course. Good to see they're heat shrunk labelled.

OK, I‘m now going to ask you to justify and prove why. 514 AND Appendix 7 repeatedly use the word unambiguous.

 

[loz2754]

The use of the word unambiguous is only in the bits that refer to an interface between old and new colours.
I'm not sure what you're asking me to prove?
The labels have been applied by the manufacturer and as such could be deemed to be part of the manufacturer's instructions.
In any case, if we're talking about using black as L3 and grey as L2 there is nothing wrong with this as long it's the same at both ends.

 

[andyb]

The labeling is certainly unambiguous.

 

[loz2754]

And I'm not sure how to prove an opinion ?

 

[Rockingit]

The use of the word unambiguous is only in the bits that refer to an interface between old and new colours.
I'm not sure what you're asking me to prove?
The labels have been applied by the manufacturer and as such could be deemed to be part of the manufacturer's instructions.
In any case, if we're talking about using black as L3 and grey as L2 there is nothing wrong with this as long it's the same at both ends.

OKaaaayyy..... so now, when the same manufacturer, has an additional piece of equipment that connects to this same device, also 3ph, but the dangly flex DOESN'T have markings.....

My point is that table 51 doesn't stipulate a priority of columns, and 514.3.1 actually specifies colouring first AND/or alphanumeric.

For all we know this could just be the semi-furloughed factory worker not paying attention. I've another two units to compare it to, when it's not raining and I've taken the covers off!

 

[telectrix]

i'd be wary and firstly think that some oik of a 19 year old with his mobile phone glued to his top lip had f*ckedup.

 

[andyb]

OKaaaayyy..... so now, when the same manufacturer, has an additional piece of equipment that connects to this same device, also 3ph, but the dangly flex DOESN'T have markings.....

My point is that table 51 doesn't stipulate a priority of columns, and 514.3.1 actually specifies colouring first AND/or alphanumeric.

For all we know this could just be the semi-furloughed factory worker not paying attention. I've another two units to compare it to, when it's not raining and I've taken the covers off!

I think you would give the labels priority in this case. The conductors can be any colour as long as they are labeled correctly, the phases are Line 1 Line 2 & Line 3. Not brown, black and grey..

You should always check the rotation of a motor when you 1st turn it on anyway, even if coloured and labeled as you would expect.

 

[Rockingit]

I think you would give the labels priority in this case. The conductors can be any colour as long as they are labeled correctly, the phases are Line 1 Line 2 & Line 3. Not brown, black and grey..

You should always check the rotation of a motor when you 1st turn it on anyway, even if coloured and labeled as you would expect.

Agreed if this was just a simple motor rotation issue, it isn't in this case as there's all sorts of complex electronics involved within the compressor unit.

 

[Rockingit]

i'd be wary and firstly think that some oik of a 19 year old with his mobile phone glued to his top lip had f*ckedup.

Yep - also my first thoughts!

 

[Vortigern]

The order of colours and labelling does not follow normal convention and would make one wary that some kind of cock up has occurred and would be checking phase rotation/colour down the line for my own confidence in working on whatever it is you are working on.

 

[ipf]

It could lead to future problems, also.
I'd be getting it checked with the manufacturer.

 

[andyb]

It could lead to future problems, also.
I'd be getting it checked with the manufacturer.

The order of colours and labelling does not follow normal convention and would make one wary that some kind of cock up has occurred and would be checking phase rotation/colour down the line for my own confidence in working on whatever it is you are working on.

I do a lot of work for a fish & shellfish company, very quiet since the turn of the year but that's another thread. I'm forever changing pumps, I just go by the labeling, never look at or notice the colours unless there's no label. It's normally u v w but also l1 l2 l3 or just 1 2 3, I wouldn't think to contact the manufacturer, these pumps come from around the world and I wouldn't know where to start with that one and lifes too short. But as I said earlier, I always check the rotation.

 

[Darkwood]

-Incorrect labelling kills people with no electrical knowledge as the public rely on it to be correct when switch off circuits etc..
-Incorrect colour coding kills electricians who should know better due to complacency and skipping the appropriate tests that would verify the correct colour code.

That is why in my opinion.

 

[andyb]

-Incorrect labelling kills people with no electrical knowledge as the public rely on it to be correct when switch off circuits etc..
-Incorrect colour coding kills electricians who should know better due to complacency and skipping the appropriate tests that would verify the correct colour code.

That is why in my opinion.

All well and good DW, this doesn't really need saying, but I'd be interested to know how you would connect the compressor in the OPs photo and what dead tests will identify phase conductors.

 

[Rockingit]

OK, so I was on hold to Daikin tech for so long that I actually read the manuals.... hidden in the VERY small print of the fuse/isolator schematics that we'd normally all skip past it does actually say Br-Gry-Blk - on all devices - not just this random one that I found labelled. So had I not been paying attention ? then I'd have inadvertantly wired about 90% of the plant room phase reversed for the kit that's in it.

Make of that what you will..... (but I'm not impressed by Daikin!)

 

[Darkwood]

All well and good DW, this doesn't really need saying, but I'd be interested to know how you would connect the compressor in the OPs photo and what dead tests will identify phase conductors.

Although my comment was just jovial the markings in this particular case are irrelevant because the phase rotation of the supply cannot be determined by the manufacturer of the compressor, those markings shouldn't be applied at all imho and may lead to incorrect wiring and possible less experienced sparkies walking away expecting the motor to be going the correct direction and in fact it could be going the wrong way, this is applicable regardless which order the L1 L2 L3 is marked up.

 

[Darkwood]

OK, so I was on hold to Daikin tech for so long that I actually read the manuals.... hidden in the VERY small print of the fuse/isolator schematics that we'd normally all skip past it does actually say Br-Gry-Blk - on all devices - not just this random one that I found labelled. So had I not been paying attention ? then I'd have inadvertantly wired about 90% of the plant room phase reversed for the kit that's in it.

Make of that what you will..... (but I'm not impressed by Daikin!)

Change the other 10% around and then swap the supply rotation