Not agreeing with it, just after some thoughts from fellow sparks

Pete999

Pete999

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Been watching an American documentary on the IBEW Electician's Union, realise it's an American idea, but do you think this sort of thing would work in the UK? just asking for opinions please. Do you think it would upset the Schemes much? would it take far to long to organise and Police, if something along these lines were to get the green light, or is it all wishful thinking?
 
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Pete999 said:
Been watching an American documentary on the IBEW Electician's Union, realise it's an American idea, but do you think this sort of thing would work in the UK? just asking for opinions please. Do you think it would upset the Schemes much? would it take far to long to organise and Police, if something along these lines were to get the green light, or is it all wishful thinking?
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Hi Pete. I think it's ok as it is really. Genuinely, in Industrial and Commercial it is not an issue. The ECS/JIB system is doing just fine and works well. Just my opinion but I don't think we need any more organisations or places to register with.
 
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essex said:
Joint Industry Board.
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Agree entirely Neil. It's a good system and used by nearly all big firms. If anything the JIB Gold card should be adopted by the NICEIC etc as an entry requirement for sparks on works other than domestic. So easy really. Domestic chaps can still register then register as DI's with just part p quals etc and carry out work on domestic.
 
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TJ Anderson said:
Agree entirely Neil. It's a good system and used by nearly all big firms. If anything the JIB Gold card should be adopted by the NICEIC etc as an entry requirement for sparks on works other than domestic. So easy really. Domestic chaps can still register then register as DI's with just part p quals etc and carry out work on domestic.
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No it shouldnt be used by any of the scams as a entry requirement, proof of competance should be used as entry for them if you need or choose to be in one.
 
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The criteria for a gold card, is that you either have industry experience or core qualifications, have passed a health and safety exam and have the latest edition update.
You will also require the NVQ3, if your core qualifications are dated after a certain date.
 
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TJ Anderson said:
It would be part of that proof of competence.
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But why have two different fees? One for the JIB card and one for the scam, surely just one proof of competance is needed? Not lots of scams who have done nothing to help prove the areas in which they supposedly support workers to adhere too certain Building Regulations
 
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The criteria is higher for a JIB Gold Card than it is for a DI. That's why it would work.
Dillb said:
This thread is demonstrating what is wrong woth the trade by using terms such ad domestic electricians, your wither a electrician or you aren't. Yes there are different aspects to the trade but you should still be able to work on any install to a certain comperance as you should of been trained accordingly for different types of installs.
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Don't agree. Someone who only works on domestic would not need to be the same as a commercial / industrial spark.
 
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Dillb said:
Why whats difference is there? Its not just about install skills, there is also the sciences involved too
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There is a huge difference. Why would someone who only does domestic need to know about 3 Ph, Motors, VFD's, design outside of standard circuits, control panels and systems, PLC ' S, HVAC, refrigeration to name a few.
Also, to fault find on single phase domestic circuits genuinely is is easier. Heating controls being the most complicated they are likely to encounter.
There seems to be a lot of biting at people on here who are only wanting to do domestic saying they need to be more qualified. I think the Domestic Installer qual is adequate and a sensible and conscientious guy can do a good job and work safely. There are horrendous fully qualified sparks out there on industrial / commercial for sure so fully qualified is no guarantee.

Prepared to have my head blown off!!...... Lol
 
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LankyWill said:
Talking rubbish imho, theres no difference between a domestic electrician and commercial/industrial electrician. Both work with cable, both test, both do containment, its exactly the same. Its just a different environment, its people like you who think just because they work on commercial and industrial jobs they are some how special or gifted. You need your check your arrogant god complex as you look a ---!
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Im hardly arrogant am I

Exactly the Same containment???? Really?? Have you got basket and tray in your house??

It's not the same. I am not degrading domestic work either. It is definitely skilled to do it well and there are good and bad domestic sparks as there is commercial/ ind ones.
 
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spinlondon said:
The criteria for a gold card, is that you either have industry experience or core qualifications, have passed a health and safety exam and have the latest edition update.
You will also require the NVQ3, if your core qualifications are dated after a certain date.
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You can get a jib gold card by being a qs with the same NICEIC AC firm for i think its 3 or 5 years. without having the am2 nvq etc, just need the 2394/95 or 2391 quals and be qs.
It says qs for company x on bottom but is still a jib gold card and how many firms are going to query it? if they run a check it comes back as joe bloggs has a valid gold card.
 
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Gavin John Hyde said:
You can get a jib gold card by being a qs with the same NICEIC AC firm for i think its 3 or 5 years. without having the am2 nvq etc, just need the 2394/95 or 2391 quals and be qs.
It says qs for company x on bottom but is still a jib gold card and how many firms are going to query it? if they run a check it comes back as joe bloggs has a valid gold card.
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May not be graded though?
 
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LankyWill said:
Talking rubbish imho, theres no difference between a domestic electrician and commercial/industrial electrician. Both work with cable, both test, both do containment, its exactly the same. Its just a different environment, its people like you who think just because they work on commercial and industrial jobs they are some how special or gifted. You need your check your arrogant god complex as you look a ---!
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Sorry mate but absolute tosh.
 
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Gavin John Hyde said:
You can get a jib gold card by being a qs with the same NICEIC AC firm for i think its 3 or 5 years. without having the am2 nvq etc, just need the 2394/95 or 2391 quals and be qs.
It says qs for company x on bottom but is still a jib gold card and how many firms are going to query it? if they run a check it comes back as joe bloggs has a valid gold card.
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The NICEIC will want to see those qualifications prior to allowing you to be QS. That would include the NVQ 3.
 
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TJ Anderson said:
Im hardly arrogant am I

Exactly the Same containment???? Really?? Have you got basket and tray in your house??

It's not the same. I am not degrading domestic work either. It is definitely skilled to do it well and there are good and bad domestic sparks as there is commercial/ ind ones.
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I do because im a tart with the most over specified garage in my Blighty, but can you honestly say basket and tray are difficult. If you can do Meccano you can do tray and basket is dummy proof. Both are different thats is a given but neither are more skilled or require a different grading.
 
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7029 dave said:
Lets get something quite clear, the JIB was set up as a union in its day (closed shop) nothing more, for those who can remember that far back.
Now its the be all an end all.!!
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Yeah, well with respect, that was decades before I was even born lol. Now the ECS/ JIB grading scheme is the only thing we have as a sensible system for defining Electricians for firms in our industry.
 
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LankyWill said:
I do because im a tart with the most over specified garage in my Blighty, but can you honestly say basket and tray are difficult. If you can do Meccano you can do tray and basket is dummy proof. Both are different thats is a given but neither are more skilled or require a different grading.
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What??Are you saying it would take the same knowledge to install and maintain all the electrical systems in say...a supermarket as a 3 bed semi.....I think you now look a --- mate!!!
 
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TJ Anderson said:
There is a huge difference. Why would someone who only does domestic need to know about 3 Ph, Motors, VFD's, design outside of standard circuits, control panels and systems, PLC ' S, HVAC, refrigeration to name a few.
Also, to fault find on single phase domestic circuits genuinely is is easier. Heating controls being the most complicated they are likely to encounter.
There seems to be a lot of biting at people on here who are only wanting to do domestic saying they need to be more qualified. I think the Domestic Installer qual is adequate and a sensible and conscientious guy can do a good job and work safely. There are horrendous fully qualified sparks out there on industrial / commercial for sure so fully qualified is no guarantee.

Prepared to have my head blown off!!...... Lol
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You need a better structure in your replies as its hard to read....

;o))))
 
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Unfortunately, the JIB will not show my SSSTS qualification on my gold card.
They would show it on a black card, but what’s the point in having two cards?
 
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TJ Anderson said:
There is a huge difference. Why would someone who only does domestic need to know about 3 Ph, Motors, VFD's, design outside of standard circuits, control panels and systems, PLC ' S, HVAC, refrigeration to name a few.
Also, to fault find on single phase domestic circuits genuinely is is easier. Heating controls being the most complicated they are likely to encounter.
There seems to be a lot of biting at people on here who are only wanting to do domestic saying they need to be more qualified. I think the Domestic Installer qual is adequate and a sensible and conscientious guy can do a good job and work safely. There are horrendous fully qualified sparks out there on industrial / commercial for sure so fully qualified is no guarantee.

Prepared to have my head blown off!!...... Lol
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By your own admission you need a NVQ to get a JIB grading, in the NVQ you uave to prove you can work with different types of containment, cable etc?
 
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Pete999

Pete999

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