Discuss AFDDs are a massive fraud in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:   American Electrical Advice Forum

Well, I don't think you would be to happy if I told you arcing is the end stage of joule heating...





Not so much comparing as showing proof of my claims. Manufacter backed UL and others were literally researching UK/EU power systems with the intent of emulating the system here in the US leading to electronic AFCIs. Now these same manufacturers turn to the IET/IEC claiming they have a new product solving a problem that no technology has ever tackled before.

I derailed in the hospital thread- but since the subject was touched I might as well let knowledge on this hot button issue spill out.
Well, I don't think you would be to happy if I told you arcing is the end stage of joule heating...





Not so much comparing as showing proof of my claims. Manufacter backed UL and others were literally researching UK/EU power systems with the intent of emulating the system here in the US leading to electronic AFCIs. Now these same manufacturers turn to the IET/IEC claiming they have a new product solving a problem that no technology has ever tackled before.

I derailed in the hospital thread- but since the subject was touched I might as well let knowledge on this hot button issue spill out.
Regarding your statement about joules and heating, the AFDD detects an Arc fault before it reverts to combustion, doesn't it?
 
Regarding your statement about joules and heating, the AFDD detects an Arc fault before it reverts to combustion, doesn't it?


That what they claim.

Joule heating (aka high resistance connection) are responsible for most electrical fires and in of themselves do not produce arcing. When they do, it is often near the end stage (terminal is already glowing and falling apart), not the start.
 
That what they claim.

Joule heating (aka high resistance connection) are responsible for most electrical fires and in of themselves do not produce arcing. When they do, it is often near the end stage (terminal is already glowing and falling apart), not the start.
That would be when the AFDD trips the circuit Off then before that happens.
 
Wouldn't worry too much; not many are going to be installed over here
in a residential setting, anytime soon at £200ish a pop ( :) ). And the premises that can afford it, will have their own design consultants, paid to worry over such issues.
 
Perhaps now, but give it time. They will not only become mandatory, but eventually require self test logic (planed obsolescence) with a slew of devices to also follow. The American NEC is already a product catalog and getting worse each cycle. 2020 is going to be raunchy.
 
Perhaps now, but give it time. They will not only become mandatory, but eventually require self test logic (planed obsolescence) with a slew of devices to also follow. The American NEC is already a product catalog and getting worse each cycle. 2020 is going to be raunchy.

What time is where you are? Sun's over the yardarm here, I'd recommend a stiff drink, or whatever trips your device.:)
 
Yes, and if twin and earth is damaged a parallel arc is between two points: live to earth or live to neutral. Live to earth is covered with the RCD and breaker coil, live to neutral via the breaker's magnetic trip coil.

So any parallel protection an AFCI offers is redundant at best.
what about an arc L-L or N-N? e.g. on a fractured cable.
 
I have read the thread and it has connotations with other fables I read such as "man did not set foot on the moon"or "the illuminati are hell bent on controlling this planet," (one world government)

Conspiracy theories abound and conspiracy theorists are ever ready to find motive where none may exist

The Iet (bless em) are not anything other than a bunch of sometimes impressionable folk, who happen to have lived their lives(like us) thinking electrons,they are not best placed to accept nonsense too often

They have been and will be susceptible to dodgy influence on occasion but not where technical issues are concerned
The concern in this thread smells like little more than conspiracy theory and big business is on the prowl mentality
 
I have read the thread and it has connotations with other fables I read such as "man did not set foot on the moon"or "the illuminati are hell bent on controlling this planet," (one world government)

Conspiracy theories abound and conspiracy theorists are ever ready to find motive where none may exist

The Iet (bless em) are not anything other than a bunch of sometimes impressionable folk, who happen to have lived their lives(like us) thinking electrons,they are not best placed to accept nonsense too often

They have been and will be susceptible to dodgy influence on occasion but not where technical issues are concerned
The concern in this thread smells like little more than conspiracy theory and big business is on the prowl mentality


Conspiracy theories are just that, theories. People jumping to fantastic conclusions based on incomplete information or bodged journalism.

On the other hand we not only have ample evidence saying so but also science calling AFDDs out as marketing hubris.

Nowhere will you find official documents saying XZY never happened or ABC is just a hologram however here in black and white the creators and researchers of AFCIs freely admit their efforts of trying to mimic European circuit breakers. It can not be any clearer.

Just because a few trolls out in the internet abyss have ruined any view of descent by being vicious unhinged bullies does not make every single person who calls out bad ideas as crazy or a conspiracy theorist.
 
Not being that nosey, just getting a feel for the bad habits you may have picked up.
(touch testing for 120V to earth !)
Helps us chose relevant advice.


You do realize that most US electricians hate AFCIs with a passion for all the call backs. Litterally every other day there is a thread on US electrical forums for AFCIs nusinace tripping without cause. The circuit will hold on a GFCI breaker, the romex is meggered, the connections checked and rechecked yet they still trip at random times without reason. Tripping has also been reported for MV faults outside the structure, faults on other circuits and tripping without anything connected the breaker. Even RFI has been known to trip them:



Eaton has since claimed to have resolved the above but nuisance tripping is still going on to this day even with new breakers of all manufacturers.

And by the power of logic if they can trip on LED lighting and functioning appliances who says they can or will trip on supposed dangerous arcing?
 

Reply to AFDDs are a massive fraud in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

Electrical Forum

Welcome to the Electrical Forum at ElectriciansForums.net. The friendliest electrical forum online. General electrical questions and answers can be found in the electrical forum.
This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by Untold Media. Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock