Another ceiling rose replacement!

[Fitzpad]

Hi all. Apologies I can see this type of question has been asked a few times but I still need help as an absolute novice! I am planning to replace the rose with a modern (metal) light. I have added a pic of the current configuration in place and the connector available inside the new light. I have read up a bit and understand the red and black is old colours (see other pic nicked from web as my reference) and I think I understand that I have a feed in a feed out and a switched live (ps it’s a dimmer switch if that matters). My query is that I don’t understand how to connect old and new given the connector block inside the new light. Should I be buying some kind of multi block similar together one in the old rose and then linking this to the connector block in the new light? Also I can see there is no sheath denoting the live switch wire but assume it is the black one going into Live? And does it matter anyway --- long as I remap it to similar block in same way as currently configured ensuring power is off throughout? Thanks in advance for any guidance. Keen to do it myself but will accept defeat if told to not be an idiot and get a sparky in. ?. Cheers. Den. Definitely a homeowner/DIYer!

 

[Dustydazzler]

Fairly straight forward job , you will need a wago or extra termina block to join your 2 red lives together.
The rest is Pretty self explanatory using the block on thr new light for youy switched live , neutral and earths

 

[Fitzpad]

Fairly straight forward job , you will need a wago or extra termina block to join your 2 red lives together.
The rest is Pretty self explanatory using the block on thr new light for youy switched live , neutral and earths

Ah I see. So I only need an extra block for the reds. Would something like the one I’ve attached be ok?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Yes a wago like that is fine

 

[Fitzpad]

Yes a wago like that is fine

Thanks a lot ?

 

[Zerax]

If you're doing away with the ceiling rose... you'll need 3 x 2way and 1 x 3 way (for the cpc) and a box to put them in. Make sure you 'earth' that metal fitting !

 

[SJD]

Also I can see there is no sheath denoting the live switch wire but assume it is the black one going into Live? And does it matter anyway as long as I remap it to similar block in same way as currently configured ensuring power is off throughout?

Just to add, you can't assume the black currently connected to live in the old fitting is the switched live. Likely it will be, but sometimes the two blacks have been mixed up and nobody has noticed (i.e. not tested).

It doesn't actually matter for the operation of a bayonet pendant, and many other fittings, where polarity is not relevant (other than the colours of the wires then being incorrect). But ideally test that the black you think is switched live, is in fact switched live.

 

[Fitzpad]

If you're doing away with the ceiling rose... you'll need 3 x 2way and 1 x 3 way (for the cpc) and a box to put them in. Make sure you 'earth' that metal fitting !

Err. Now I’m confused. Thought I understood why I only needed 1 * 2-way.

 

[James]

Err. Now I’m confused. Thought I understood why I only needed 1 * 2-way.

I was a little confused by that too.
2 way wago to join the 2 reds in the loop connection
Switched live into live terminal of new fitting
neutral wire into N terminal of new fitting
Cpc (earth) into earth terminal of newfitting.

Simples ?

 

[SJD]

Err. Now I’m confused. Thought I understood why I only needed 1 * 2-way.

You already have the 3x 2-way in the new light fitting photo, you just need one more 2-way for the unswitched lives.

For the CPC (earth), if you were using e.g. Wago connectors, you'd use a 3-way, but it is common practice with choc blocks to put the two incoming wires into one connector.

Edit: crossed posts with James.

 

[littlespark]

I think we’ve got the wiring sorted now. Take care not to have any bare copper showing at the connections. When you squeeze the new fitting up to fix it over the cables, you don’t want anything to touch the metal dome.

And just to throw a spanner in, if your new fitting uses LED lamps... your dimmer might not operate.

 

[Fitzpad]

You already have the 3x 2-way in the new light fitting photo, you just need one more 2-way for the unswitched lives.

For the CPC (earth), if you were using e.g. Wago connectors, you'd use a 3-way, but it is common practice with choc blocks to put the two incoming wires into one connector.

Edit: crossed posts with James.

Ok. Thanks everyone. So back to plan A. Add a 2-way wago for the 2 reds. I understand Zerax’s point too now thanks. ??

 

[littlespark]

Advice for DIYer.

when using wagos on old cable, the conductor has to be straight, and each conductor goes into separate hole in the connector.

 

[Fitzpad]

Just to add, you can't assume the black currently connected to live in the old fitting is the switched live. Likely it will be, but sometimes the two blacks have been mixed up and nobody has noticed (i.e. not tested).

It doesn't actually matter for the operation of a bayonet pendant, and many other fittings, where polarity is not relevant (other than the colours of the wires then being incorrect). But ideally test that the black you think is switched live, is in fact switched live.

Thanks SJD. regarding testing the live switch, I still need to read up more on it before I go near it. Is there a good Explanation you can refer me to for the procedure of testing this? Thanks in advance.
[automerge]1592378858[/automerge]

I think we’ve got the wiring sorted now. Take care not to have any bare copper showing at the connections. When you squeeze the new fitting up to fix it over the cables, you don’t want anything to touch the metal dome.

And just to throw a spanner in, if your new fitting uses LED lamps... your dimmer might not operate.

Thanks for that. Will do. Interesting point on the dimmer. Here are the bulbs, but not end of world If dimmer doesn’t work. I’m only changing the fitting to make the room brighter! ?

 

[Fitzpad]

Thanks SJD. regarding testing the live switch, I still need to read up more on it before I go near it. Is there a good Explanation you can refer me to for the procedure of testing this? Thanks in advance.
[automerge]1592378858[/automerge]

Thanks for that. Will do. Interesting point on the dimmer. Here are the bulbs, but not end of world If dimmer doesn’t work. I’m only changing the fitting to make the room brighter! ?

Hi again. Quick update and follow on question...I’ve taken the plunge and it’s all up and running. Very happy so thanks to everyone for the guidance. Sure enough, as you predicted the dimmer doesn’t work...is there an obvious reason for that? Also, there seems to be a fairly significant buzzing coming from the new unit. Should I be concerned??

 

[littlespark]

Old dimmers just aren’t designed for such a low power load such as LED lamps.
A traditional dimmer simply increase or decreases the voltage going to a filament lamp, thus making it dimmer or brighter.
LED lamps are designed to only work at mains voltage, (sometimes a range, say between 120 and 230v)
Feeding less than this into it by way of a dimmer can cause the LED to flash, buzz, or not work at all.

Can you change the dimmer to a regular switch?

 

[Fitzpad]

Old dimmers just aren’t designed for such a low power load such as LED lamps.
A traditional dimmer simply increase or decreases the voltage going to a filament lamp, thus making it dimmer or brighter.
LED lamps are designed to only work at mains voltage, (sometimes a range, say between 120 and 230v)
Feeding less than this into it by way of a dimmer can cause the LED to flash, buzz, or not work at all.

Can you change the dimmer to a regular switch?

absolutely. Should that be a simple switch (no pun intended!) from the dimmer to a generic on/off switch, from a wiring connections point or view?

 

[pc1966]

You can get dimmers intended for LED dimmable bulbs, but even then they sometimes need configuring to get the best performance and/or don't play well with some types of LED bulb.

I have had reasonable success with theses which are much like a traditional filament dimmer:

VARILIGHT V-Pro Dimmer Series for Dimmable LED Lighting

Choose Varilight V-Pro dimmers to control dimmable LED lighting.

www.varilight.co.uk

 

[Fitzpad]

You can get dimmers intended for LED dimmable bulbs, but even then they sometimes need configuring to get the best performance and/or don't play well with some types of LED bulb.

I have had reasonable success with theses which are much like a traditional filament dimmer:

VARILIGHT V-Pro Dimmer Series for Dimmable LED Lighting

Choose Varilight V-Pro dimmers to control dimmable LED lighting.

www.varilight.co.uk

Ok thanks for that. I think I’ll just swap the dimmer switch for a basic switch. ?