Anyone still use round JBs ?

[Dustydazzler]

Going through some old boxes I must have found 30-40 old round 20a and 30a JBs

does anyone still actually use them or is it vago boxes all the way these days

 

[SparkySy]

Holy bartender, I found a couple of boxes of the Ashley J201 round Jb's the other day in my lockup and thought fondly of them from a distant past memory! They will be collector's items in a few years or museum pieces. I put mine back in the faint hope that they will become worth more than I paid for them within my lifetime. Or they will become a family heirloom!
To answer wago or ideal all the way these days!

 

[Vortigern]

Nope not a chance! Since wagos, never looked back. I view with horror the idea of up in a loft half dark losing one of the brass screws and making it neat (properly) Thank God I will never have to do that again. When I started learning the guy in charge of me (nice guy) got me to do my first junction box. He looked and said "no good, do it again" three times later I was almost crying, and in the end I got it the way he wanted which was nice straight lines with curves, all wires the same length, no ends poking out. Okay I got it! But what a pain they were.

 

[DefyG]

Yes, Using up 'Old Stock' (still finding the odd one or two in the shed) but less and less in favour of wago's

 

[Dave OCD]

I remember that well up in lofts, then you short neutral/earth and the bit of light you had is replaced by pitch black as the RCD trips. ?
The only time I ever use round JBs these days are for under kitchen cupboard lights and I'll use the small white ones as they're discreet and tidy. Still fiddly connecting upside down though. ?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

oops

 

[Pete999]

Nope not a chance! Since wagos, never looked back. I view with horror the idea of up in a loft half dark losing one of the brass screws and making it neat (properly) Thank God I will never have to do that again. When I started learning the guy in charge of me (nice guy) got me to do my first junction box. He looked and said "no good, do it again" three times later I was almost crying, and in the end I got it the way he wanted which was nice straight lines with curves, all wires the same length, no ends poking out. Okay I got it! But what a pain they were.

Making off JBs used to be an art, now just bang the cables in a WAGO box and throw it about the loft space,

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I hardly ever use T+E so they don't feature very much in my work, but I have no particular issues with them, they are not hard to use and if of good quality and correctly wired can be neat, reliable and safe. My main objection is that there is no room to leave much slack or service loops internally, which makes it harder to modify later or repair damaged terminations. Where space permits, I take each conductor round to the furthest side of the terminal pillar from where the cable enters, which gives an extra inch or so if needed in the future. For ring circuits, the traditional 3-terminal round box has the specific advantage that a spur can be made without breaking the ring conductor. If one is minded to do it, the same is true for a lighting point with a JB inserted into the unbroken run, breaking out the cables to switch and light.

On the occasions I do work with sheathed cables e.g. Flexishield / FP, I favour the continental junction box style, like a square plastic adaptable box with glands fitted into round entry holes. I marshall the cores that are going to be connected in each Wago together at the back, then bring them up and over to create a line of Wagos along the front. It doesn't meet the MF requirements but I much prefer it to the rather inflexible arrangement of a Wagobox, where there is no efficient way to relieve tension on each conductor by taking it through a couple of bends, nor allow access for inspection and testing of each terminal without flexing and possibly stressing others. IIRC the Wagobox was not designed by Wago, but by a UK company. In Wago's native Germany, the up and over style I use is standard.

I'm totally with Pete999 about the relative importance of skill vs. materials in making connections and not greatly sold on the whole BS5733 MF idea. I think it's good that we have come to a point where a quick and easy connection method can be so reliable that failures can be ignored for design purposes, but as I always say (and I keep saying it because it's important) that a good electrician can make a reliable connection with more or less anything. Making a holy grail of getting a particular kind of approval on a particular kind of box can only go so far to make up for a lack of skill once it leaves the shelf in the wholesaler.

 

[pirate]

The old round JBs make good ashtrays...handy having a lid for them

 

[telectrix]

The old round JBs make good ashtrays...handy having a lid for them

i use 1 of these on the bench.

as you can see, it's compliant with current regs.......... non-combustible enclosure. with a lid on and a blanking bush. it's even IP44+.

 

[westward10]

I remember many years ago as a lad being given a box of circular junction boxes, a junior hacksaw and a magneto file to cut and file the entries. My gaffer kept coming back to check them, my hands and jeans were black. This was followed by a drum of two core flex and boxes of ceiling roses and pendant holders again my gaffer regularly came back with a tape to measure them. Fond days?

 

[Dartlec]

Would never install them fresh now, but when one is in place it can be a real sod to replace them with a Wago - if all the cables are clipped and trimmed to exactly the right length it almost always requires multiple wago boxes and links to replace. So in those cases I might reuse an existing one to add one small circuit....

Fortunately, the places I work have normally not been done by people who were taught the right way back in the day, so they are usually floating under the insulation with loads of slack - one of the few times it's easier when the previous job was bodged but functional...

 

[Dustydazzler]

I wonder why they were made round shaped in the first place ...?

surely a more square / box shape with the terminals in a nice row of 3 or 4 would have been a better original design ... ?

 

[Dartlec]

I wonder why they were made round shaped in the first place ...?

surely a more square / box shape with the terminals in a nice row of 3 or 4 would have been a better original design ... ?

I think they used to be square going right back? I have seen one original of those - where the entire lighting feed for upstairs was run to and from one large square box in the loft... Though I think we are talking well pre 60s wiring.

No idea why circular ones became the standard - but it was probably related to cost of manufacturing somehow - that's the driver behind a lot of engineering decisions after all.

 

[Flanders]

I wonder why they were made round shaped in the first place ...?

surely a more square / box shape with the terminals in a nice row of 3 or 4 would have been a better original design ... ?

I think they where round to help with design. You would turn the lid to select how many entry holes you required. I did have to use one the other day as the wholesaler did not have any hager Ashley MF in stock but plenty of the 30 amp ones

 

[lozarus]

Square ones do exist - interestingly B&Q still sell these MK ones at £3.47 each. They're a bit of an anomaly, as they still feature the rounded pre-1990-something MK logo. I used one of these in the last few years when the particulars of what I was doing meant that it was an easy, neat solution (a straight exposed run with just not enough slack to enter an adaptable box and curl around to a wago and I didn't want to introduce a short link). Personally seems a better idea than the round ones as you can get cores to equal length.

But anyway, no I can't really see me using traditional jb's again. That said I do keep 2 of these in stock. Just in case...

 

[Pete999]

Making off JBs used to be an art, now just bang the cables in a WAGO box and throw it about the loft space,

On a rewire council estate rewire contract, we would wire the lighting via a 6"by 6" square plastic adaptable box, install a strip pf connectors inside wire all the lights, switches to this JB make all the connections, leaving a single twin at each point red and black at the light point twin red at the switch, this made life easier for all concerned.
As far as I know all these houses are still standing with no problems,, some this was in 1970, some 50 years ago, so much for MF JBs flung everywhere, a retrograde step in my eyes, suits the new breed of Electricians, that bash out a rewire in a day and a half, but does nothing for the profession, all pride gone for burton, money being the key issue in todays climate, sorry for the rant.
The site was "The Oval " in Southdown Bath, The JBs were at the top of the stairs on the landing all marked up on the flooring and at the Roof hatch for the upstairs lighting, info for all the Bath base Sparkles on the forum, Gavin in
particular.

 

[lozarus]

On a rewire council estate rewire contract, we would wire the lighting via a 6"by 6" square plastic adaptable box, install a strip pf connectors inside wire all the lights, switches to this JB make all the connections, leaving a single twin at each point red and black at the light point twin red at the switch, this made life easier for all concerned.

I have to say it's a good idea in my view. My place had received a rough attic extension before I moved in, and the upstairs lighting circuit had been chopped around. I ended up doing exactly that, bring it all to one accessible point in a hatch. It's made it very easy for the many changes of lighting design I've gone through here. For example adding a pair of hotel style bedside lamps was a breeze as I just had to go back to one point rather than battle with a ceiling rose buried under the insulation.

It's not too dissimilar to the octopus wiring system of yesteryear

 

[Pete999]

I have to say it's a good idea in my view. My place had received a rough attic extension before I moved in, and the upstairs lighting circuit had been chopped around. I ended up doing exactly that, bring it all to one accessible point in a hatch. It's made it very easy for the many changes of lighting design I've gone through here. For example adding a pair of hotel style bedside lamps was a breeze as I just had to go back to one point rather than battle with a ceiling rose buried under the insulation.

It's not too dissimilar to the octopus wiring system of yesteryear

Agree but all the JBs were screwed to a platform between the joists, all cables clipped to prevent movement, not slung about like they are today

 

[Dartlec]

Wonder how many people don't realise that the Wago MF boxes only officially comply (as MF boxes) if they are secured via their 'button' or screwed to a joist...

Suprisingly, seems that Hager still do a 701 junction box that is like the old ones I was thinking about.

I've seen one original in a loft simlar that was black and in VIR (fortunately had been disconnected) but used a similar system - so it's been around for a good while...

And did one odd house a while back that had been wired with large metal junction boxes and some sort of plug socket arrangement with flexes labelled to switch, light, fan etc. New builds done by a farmer so used some system more common in industrial I think. Did make for fairly easy isolation of wiring though!

 

[Dustydazzler]

I like the old JBs where you could spin the top on & off

 

[Pete999]

Wonder how many people don't realise that the Wago MF boxes only officially comply (as MF boxes) if they are secured via their 'button' or screwed to a joist...

Suprisingly, seems that Hager still do a 701 junction box that is like the old ones I was thinking about.

I've seen one original in a loft simlar that was black and in VIR (fortunately had been disconnected) but used a similar system - so it's been around for a good while...

And did one odd house a while back that had been wired with large metal junction boxes and some sort of plug socket arrangement with flexes labelled to switch, light, fan etc. New builds done by a farmer so used some system more common in industrial I think. Did make for fairly easy isolation of wiring though!

Exactly like I used to do , but about twice the price, good though, trouble with using this method it is not deemed MF, and you need certain skills to do it properly, and it's not crewed to a plain wall. you have to get down and dirty to do it right.

 

[ipf]

Nothing wrong with them , in suitable situations.

In the 80's or 90's we did a conversion of 2 ground floor flats into a council office unit. it was a concrete structure so all the wiring was above a shallow suspended ceiling. After Ist fix and plastering they decided on a complete rearrangement. About 20 double sockets had to be moved, 3 RFC's. They wouldn't let us knock it apart again so it was a case of pvc down to surface mounted sockets......horrible......nearly as bad as above the ceilings with two Ashley 401's above every socket drop. ?

Nobody ever had to go back to them, though.

 

[westward10]

I wouldn't give those so called MF Wago boxes van space they are nasty looking things, one step up from a Choc Box.

 

[buzzlightyear]

i used some the other day 6 terminal ones at dormouse bungalow has could not drop the loop in to room to room , and yes they where accessible in storage area and could be tested in a area's ,the trouble was the cables had to be snaked through the building and the customer did not want all floor boards ripping up by the three bears has granny was still in the bed .

 

[telectrix]

I like the old JBs where you could spin the top on & off

i like the all metal ones with the clamps for the lead sheath , but i can't buy that cable anymore. was a far superior R2 than this new-fangled T/E shyte.

 

[ipf]

I like the old JBs where you could spin the top on & off

Last week............and get the old rubber, it was all over the heating pipes.

 

[ipf]

I wouldn't give those so called MF Wago boxes van space they are nasty looking things, one step up from a Choc Box.

I use Wiska boxes with lever wagos, these days.

 

[westward10]

I don't really care if it has MF on it providing my connectors are suitable the enclosure I use will be many steps above those Wago boxes.

 

[lozarus]

I use Wiska boxes with lever wagos, these days.

I think that's an excellent combination and one I use myself. However, 'by the book' if used in an inaccessible location it wouldn't meet the MF requirements. Which seems completely bizzarre to me.

You can probably tell I'm not a fan of the MF requirements. Certainly surrounding wago, they have to be enclosed in the specific enclosure, in a certain way - and then you have the aggregate current bits to establish.

I would suggest that it's too complex and somewhat restricting and open to error. But apologies, I've gone off topic.

 

[ipf]

I don't really care if it has MF on it providing my connectors are suitable the enclosure I use will be many steps above those Wago boxes.

True, and it costs a bit doing this everywhere on repairs.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I think the spin-on lid was a factor in the popularity of round boxes. By moulding the threads into the bakelite, there was no need for a screw or a threaded brass insert in the base; a significant saving in cost, but obviously only suitable for a round box. Eventually the requirement for tool access and the selectable entry lid made the screw necessary. I now collect the older style for the museum, and perhaps should begin on the older of the 'modern' varieties, e.g. Ashley ones with the old script logo.

Metal JBs for lead-sheathed cables were available round, square or rectangular. They didn't have the moulded-in terminals so their usage was not pre-defined as it is with the bakelite ones.

 

[Rockingit]

Just to be contraversial.... I've been known to use wago's inside a larger 30A JB.........

 

[Let me think]

No matter what you use, only concern I have is making sure there is some form of cable strain relieve - to give the cable some extra insurance of staying fixed to terminals, during the 'inadvertently and over enthusiast cable tuggers' out there...of which I'm one of them, saying that I come across JBs with no strain relieve and you could hang a small elephant from and the cable would never come out of the terminal.

 

[loz2754]

No matter what you use, only concern I have is making sure there is some form of cable strain relieve - to give the cable some extra insurance of staying fixed to terminals, during the 'inadvertently and over enthusiast cable tuggers' out there...of which I'm one of them, saying that I come across JBs with no strain relieve and you could hang a small elephant from and the cable would never come out of the terminal.

Nice one. I'm going to use the small elephant tug test from now on.

 

[7029 dave]

Ashley range were/are good still today.

 

[Dave OCD]

Ashley are Hager these days Dave, still identical though apart from the name.