Bonding Clarification

[fm89uk]

Hello first time poster on here so hopefully I won't incur too much of a backlash for this post but I really just wanted to ask for advice on bonding and specifically main bonding at Gas meters.

I work for a large Housing Association which has in excess of 300 properties as I result one of the main things I deal with is when Gas Safety Inspections are carried out and the gas engineers note that they cannot see any bonding at Gas meter or if it is outside of the 600mm. I know that the regulations state :

544.1.2 - The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises, Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet or at the union point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

But my question is bar running a new cable to make it visible, which isn't always practical as you can imagine, is checking that earthing is present by using method 2 and gaining an ohms reading which is less than 0.05ohms enough to satisfy requirements as long as it is stated that bonding is not visible but has been proved to be present by competent persons? I have read some people do not think this method is satisfactory enough to prove bonding to be present.

 

[123]

Are the meters external? Most of the Gas Safe brigade here look for the bond outside even for the external meters and flag it as non compliant if they can't see it, an make no effort to look indoors for it.

 

[Englishman]

Are the meters external? Most of the Gas Safe brigade here look for the bond outside even for the external meters and flag it as non compliant if they can't see it, an make no effort to look indoors for it.

Their regs state that it has to be bonded at the meter, regardless of whether it's inside or outside. And plumbers being plumbers, they think that their's have to be obeyed above of ours.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Are the meters external? Most of the Gas Safe brigade here look for the bond outside even for the external meters and flag it as non compliant if they can't see it, an make no effort to look indoors for it.

Had the same thing today. BG servicing a boiler at a rewire I done and told the customer gas wasn't bonded (external meter box) the muppet didn't even look under the stairs where it's bonded at point of entry.

 

[123]

Had the same thing today. BG servicing a boiler at a rewire I done and told the customer gas wasn't bonded (external meter box) the muppet didn't even look under the stairs where it's bonded at point of entry.

Had that argument many times over I have a printout of 544.1.2 to hand to them. If the gas men want another bond outside, they can install it themselves.

Gas Installers and Plumbers alike - they seem to see the "Safety Electrical Connection Do Not Remove" more as a challenge to remove than read the ******* label and leave alone.

 

[Des 56]

But my question is bar running a new cable to make it visible, which isn't always practical as you can imagine, is checking that earthing is present by using method 2 and gaining an ohms reading which is less than 0.05ohms enough to satisfy requirements as long as it is stated that bonding is not visible but has been proved to be present by competent persons? I have read some people do not think this method is satisfactory enough to prove bonding to be present.

Gas regs tell gas fitters a simple often incorrect rule, they then apply that rule (mostly through ignorance) regardless of correct interpretation of wiring regulations

It would be near impossible to verify adequacy of connection without it being visible for inspection,but even NASA sent rockets to the moon where absolute certainty could not be 100% guaranteed, therefore it seems silly to expect 100% certainty for inspected electrical installation main bonds

Where 100% certainty cannot be guaranteed (because the once accessible connection is now no longer visible because of a variety of possible reasons)Do we now rip peoples homes apart to be 100% ? That would be an insane expectation

Electricians are given guidance when carrying out an inspection about a procedure for verifying the electrical connection where its not visible
It certainly is not 100%,however its function which is the main reason for its existence is assured as far as can be expected

The people who do not approve this method are usually residing in cloud cuckoo land in all probability

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hello first time poster on here so hopefully I won't incur too much of a backlash for this post but I really just wanted to ask for advice on bonding and specifically main bonding at Gas meters.

I work for a large Housing Association which has in excess of 300 properties as I result one of the main things I deal with is when Gas Safety Inspections are carried out and the gas engineers note that they cannot see any bonding at Gas meter or if it is outside of the 600mm. I know that the regulations state :

544.1.2 - The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises, Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet or at the union point of entry to the building if the meter is external.

But my question is bar running a new cable to make it visible, which isn't always practical as you can imagine, is checking that earthing is present by using method 2 and gaining an ohms reading which is less than 0.05ohms enough to satisfy requirements as long as it is stated that bonding is not visible but has been proved to be present by competent persons? I have read some people do not think this method is satisfactory enough to prove bonding to be present.

What you do is stick a clamp on the gas pipe at the meter, fit a short length of cable to it and stick the other end of it in a conveniently drilled hole in the wall.

It doesn't matter that the hole doesn't go right through - or that the bit of wire doesn't go anywhere - as long as the muppet sees it (s)he is happy. :devil2:

 

[fm89uk]

What you do is stick a clamp on the gas pipe at the meter, fit a short length of cable to it and stick the other end of it in a conveniently drilled hole in the wall.

It doesn't matter that the hole doesn't go right through - or that the bit of wire doesn't go anywhere - as long as the muppet sees it (s)he is happy. :devil2:

Feels like sometimes they would rather have a bit of cable going no where than accept that its been proved in the correct way. I myself don't really feel comfortable doing that just incase it was ever pulled out for any reason and questions asked but beginning to lose the will to live trying to explain that gas regs and electrical regs differ and in an ideal world it would be within 600mm but sometimes this just isn't the case. Especially in properties which are 20+ years old.

Glad that the general consensus is that the gas engineers are indeed muppets!

I appreciate the help and advice.

 

[jonny705]

Heating/gas fitters (engineers is an insult to REAL engineers out there) over the years have become so far up there own A## its incredible.

I only have met one or to that really are good and can fault find,without just referring to flow chart and parts substitution .

Quickest way to wind them up is to call them plumbers and ask them to give you quote on a blocked bog and soil pipe removal!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Feels like sometimes they would rather have a bit of cable going no where than accept that its been proved in the correct way. I myself don't really feel comfortable doing that just incase it was ever pulled out for any reason and questions asked but beginning to lose the will to live trying to explain that gas regs and electrical regs differ and in an ideal world it would be within 600mm but sometimes this just isn't the case. Especially in properties which are 20+ years old.

Glad that the general consensus is that the gas engineers are indeed muppets!

I appreciate the help and advice.

The last meter fitter I met was a young female one who fitted the meter on a garage wall.

She managed to drill the wall for the fixings all by herself and screwed the mounting bracket to the wall and fitted & connected the meter.

After completing a successful Gas Tightness Test she left and my builder mate fitted the bracket properly - it was hanging off the wall before she had got her van out of the street!

It wouldn't have been so bad if she had been pretty.