Brexit. We’re out!

[nicebutdim]

@andyb and @nicebutdim really nice to see a civilised discussion. I find myself agreeing with both points of view.

democracy isn’t perfect in either eu or uk.

I'm happy for people to hold any opinion and can fully understand why many people wished to remain in the EU. While I wanted out, I fully expected to be disappointed and thought that undecided voters would be likely to stick with the status quo.

Given how Eu institutions are structured, it is possible to argue that they are democratic, undemocratic or even anti-democratic and make valid points for each position.

One other issue that was briefly mentioned in this thread is proportional representation. I'm broadly in favour of this in principle, but don't feel it is quite so great in practice. The political reality of NI dictates that it is the only practical system we can use, but would caution against its use in GB. PR rarely results in majority governance, with the result often being political deadlock and few decisions ever being made.

First past the post voting certainly isn't ideal, but at least decisions can be made. If those decisions are good, then people might re-elect a government. If the decisions are poor or unpopular, then other parties can be chosen a few years later. Fortune favours the brave and I see no benefit to never ending parliamentary debate.

 

[Spoon]

I think Cameron was the only PM who had the ️ ️ ️ to hold the referendum, other incumbents didn’t.

He only did a referendum cause he thought the majority of people were going to vote to stay in.

 

[Paul L]

Just shows how out of touch Cameron was with the country. I voted to stay in but we're out now and I'm not a 'remoaner', what's done is done and all the European laws apart from the trading ones are nothing to do with us any more so why are we even debating it further?. We will get what we get and i am sure we'll get by somehow, we usually do.

 

[telectrix]

we were doing OK before we joined the united states of eurine, we will do even better now.

 

[Midwest]

He only did a referendum cause he thought the majority of people were going to vote to stay in.

Just shows how out of touch Cameron was with the country. I voted to stay in but we're out now and I'm not a 'remoaner', what's done is done and all the European laws apart from the trading ones are nothing to do with us any more so why are we even debating it further?. We will get what we get and i am sure we'll get by somehow, we usually do.

But that’s the point people like yourselves, no offence, can’t grasp. He committed to something Cameron couldn’t guarantee to win. Previous PM’s didn’t want to risk it.

The debate had been around for years, with no one wishing to grasp the nettle.

 

[Spoon]

But that’s the point people like yourselves, no offence, can’t grasp. He committed to something Cameron couldn’t guarantee to win. Previous PM’s didn’t want to risk it.

No offence taken mate.
The point I was making was that they had already been told by focus groups (or whatever you want to call it) that the majority of people would vote to stay in. If the result would have come back that the majority of people wanted to leave, then we would not have had a referendum.

 

[Paul L]

No offence taken either,I'm on your side Midwest. I don't appear to be as educated as you fellas but my point is a very simple one. Sorry for the cliche but we are where we are,there's a lot of things I don't like but I have to accept democracy and we can't change a thing about the past. Mistakes or misjudgements were undoubtedly made but what can we do about it now.

 

[electric al]

Cameron only made the decision to hold a referendum because the conservatives were coming under extreme pressure from the UKIP party and they were concerned they were not going to be re -elected. It was his attempt to put the issue to bed,not for one moment did he think the referendum would go against him

 

[MDJ]

We are out now and have to get on with it, due to the pandemic and not Brexit it will take 30 years to recover financially now anyhow, our grand kids will pick up the bill from the virus, I was a stayer but now think it is irrelevent whether in or out, I expect in the next 10 years one or two more EU countries to leave as well, apart from the eastern nations it is now costing the richer nations more than they put in and there is unrest in some countries, even the french people are close to 50-50 now lol

 

[Midwest]

Cameron only made the decision to hold a referendum because the conservatives were coming under extreme pressure from the UKIP party and they were concerned they were not going to be re -elected. It was his attempt to put the issue to bed,not for one moment did he think the referendum would go against him

Well he was the only conservative pm to go for it, whether he thought he’d win or not. Let’s not forget May who hedged her bets about the matter, took over afterwards.

 

[electric al]

Yes he was that's true ,but only because he was backed into a corner by ukip and his own party members ,many of whose views on europe aligned with ukip.
His and Osbornes arrogant london centric outlook were certain that they would win the referendum and quash the ante euro rebellion within the Tory ranks and free them up to further enmesh us into the euro machination

 

[littlespark]

Was last nights news a prime example of anti-Europe, pro brexit propaganda?

One report told of the EU demanding to be notified when Pfizer vaccine was being exported from Belgium, into Britain. Stand by for thousands of doses to go off, waiting for the paperwork, as this is the one than needs very low temperature for storing.

The other was news of goods travelling from mainland UK in Northern Island. Extra paperwork for alcohol (even Amazon won’t deliver it) or goods made from animals. Apparently cheese needs a vets certificate.

 

[Midwest]

Yes he was that's true ,but only because he was backed into a corner by ukip and his own party members ,many of whose views on europe aligned with ukip.
His and Osbornes arrogant london centric outlook were certain that they would win the referendum and quash the ante euro rebellion within the Tory ranks and free them up to further enmesh us into the euro machination

Not a fan of his then ?

 

[telectrix]

cameron thought he could get the UK a better deal. the referendum taught him it's fatal to deal with the devil (EU).

 

[MDJ]

cameron thought he could get the UK a better deal. the referendum taught him it's fatal to deal with the devil (EU).

Cameron was under severe pressure from his back bench MPs and thought the country wouldn't want to leave the EU, He gambled with our future and lost, IMO he is lower than a snakes belly for doing that, he should have stood up against his MPs, the same MPs who are now putting Boris under pressure to re-open the schools, we will have a eat out to help out scheme again soon and the whole place will be back into 1500 deaths a day again after, still as long as the MPs are happy

 

[telectrix]

problem with schools being closed, parents (like my son) can't get childcare, need time off work for a pittance of statutory sick pay. can't pay the rent etc.,etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

Yes he was that's true ,but only because he was backed into a corner by ukip and his own party members ,many of whose views on europe aligned with ukip.
His and Osbornes arrogant london centric outlook were certain that they would win the referendum and quash the ante euro rebellion within the Tory ranks and free them up to further enmesh us into the euro machination

Cameron did expect to win the referendum, but he also expected to gain some small comcessions from the EU. Had the latter happened, it would likely have tipped the balance in favour of remaining and also would have left him in a position of not having to even hold a referendum.

Was last nights news a prime example of anti-Europe, pro brexit propaganda?

One report told of the EU demanding to be notified when Pfizer vaccine was being exported from Belgium, into Britain. Stand by for thousands of doses to go off, waiting for the paperwork, as this is the one than needs very low temperature for storing.

The other was news of goods travelling from mainland UK in Northern Island. Extra paperwork for alcohol (even Amazon won’t deliver it) or goods made from animals. Apparently cheese needs a vets certificate.

On the AstraZeneca issue, the EU really have done themselves no favours at all. Putting aside the debunked German media reports about this vaccine, which may or may not have been disseminated by an EU source, the EU's own actions have been shockingly poor.

Robert Peston is generally considered to be pro-EU, but his twitter summary of events was so damning of the EU's actions, that he was rounded upon by those generally supportive of his reporting.

Here's an interview from La Repubblica with AstraZenica's CEO, which explains their position and should provide a reasonably concise run down of the issue. I'm not generally sympathetic towards large pharmaceutical companies, but found it to be an honest and enlightening exchange.

 

[Deleted account]

Was last nights news a prime example of anti-Europe, pro brexit propaganda?

One report told of the EU demanding to be notified when Pfizer vaccine was being exported from Belgium, into Britain. Stand by for thousands of doses to go off, waiting for the paperwork, as this is the one than needs very low temperature for storing.

The other was news of goods travelling from mainland UK in Northern Island. Extra paperwork for alcohol (even Amazon won’t deliver it) or goods made from animals. Apparently cheese needs a vets certificate.

Makes a change from pro europe and the anti brexit the bias BBC has been spewing for years.

got so sick of the BBC I stopped watching it.

the So called comedy panel shows are prime example. If you toed the line ( remainer ) you where on the panel. If you didn’t, you where out.

when they did allow a so called minority leaver on the panels they would be slated.

true non bias tv.

 

[MDJ]

Makes a change from pro europe and the anti brexit the bias BBC has been spewing for years.

got so sick of the BBC I stopped watching it.

the So called comedy panel shows are prime example. If you toed the line ( remainer ) you where on the panel. If you didn’t, you where out.

when they did allow a so called minority leaver on the panels they would be slated.

true non bias tv.

About time the Licence fee was abandoned IMO, a load of rubbish on the BBC and unless you are Disabled, Non heterosexual or female you have no chance of employment there either these days lmao, what a shambles

 

[electric al]

The BBC needs closing down !
As an institution it stinks .
As said it only promotes anyone
that shares the corporations ideology and wokeness to the degree where it demonises anyone that doesnt