Bypassed Door Entry System

[ridethelightning]

I wonder if anyone can help me concerning an apparently compromised Videx audio intercom door entry system please? The system has a problem in that unauthorised people (e.g. leaflet droppers) without keys/codes/being 'buzzed' in are letting themselves into a block of flats by doing *something* to the doorbell/intercom pad below. There is no 'tradesman's entrance' and none of the buttons open the door at any time merely by pressing them in the usual manner.

Here is one example of footage showing what seems to be going on: http://tinypic.com/r/11h43lw/9

Does anyone have any idea how they are doing this and what needs to be done to stop it? Has this chap got a device of some sort perhaps? I wonder if the system's electrical supply can, in some way, be interrupted such that it momentarily releases the lock? Everyone seen doing this is already pulling on the door as they do whatever they do. We really need to work out how to stop it from happening, even if it means a whole new system needs to be installed.

I am not an electrician but it really has everyone baffled. Any advice appreciated, thanks.

 

[charlie76]

Does it have access control prox readers nearby? I worked at a hospital a couple of years ago (which I won't name for security reasons) where we were commissioning a fire alarm system, one man at the panel and one out in the field using two way radios. We discovered that keying your radio near one of their prox readers released the access control door.

I'm not saying they are carrying walkie talkies but it maybe they have found some unconventional method of releasing the doors.

 

[ruston]

Maybe not the place to be speculating on this type of thing.

 

[ridethelightning]

Thanks charlie76 but I don't think there is such a reader on the keypad that is being used to access the building. There might be on the keypad just on the right actually, so there could be something in that but everyone entering seems to be pressing or using something on the 'doorbell pad' in the pic above.

Ruston: fair point and I don't want to create speculation etc... but given the number of people seen using it, it seems to be a relatively widespread method that needs to be protected against, if possible.

 

[Darkwood]

I would contact the manufacturers with your concerns, it's possible they have a software update they can do if this a a widespread issue.

Can members be cautious as regards of known issues as this is in public view, if you have any sensitive information for the OP then start a private conversation as opposed to posting it for all to see.

 

[ridethelightning]

Thanks darkwood, I have sent a message to Videx but not heard back yet.

 

[Wilko]

Sorry to hear of your problem. Yes, check in with the manufacturer to get their experience. Often times it is a simple human thing - tailgating or some such. CCTV will answer this. To record wildlife I understand folks use a camouflaged battery powered motion activated camera to good effect. Sometimes the wildlife makes off with it though, I'm told.

 

[UNG]

What type of locking arrangement is fitted to the door?

 

[ridethelightning]

Not sure how to describe it really but here is a pic:

It is unlocked by key and also phone intercoms/buzzers from within each flat (so you don't have to physically go to the door). I assume it is fail-safe so it unlocks if power fails.

 

[telectrix]

what if they are just pressing a few call buttons at random and one of the tenants buzzes them in?

 

[ridethelightning]

Thanks. That would certainly explain it, but unfortunately we know that isn't the case as we can always hear any buzzing in, plus it all happens too quickly for someone to be going to the door release in their flat and letting them in. We're sure they are doing something to panel and letting themselves in. Maybe something that causes the same effect as 'buzzing' in, circumventing the system or using some sort of device. Just can't work it out.

 

[snowhead]

If the Unauthorised people are getting in to drop leaflets in individual letterboxes, which presumably are the other side of the locked door, how does the Royal Mail Postman get in?

 

[ridethelightning]

Correct, they are the other side of the locked door. Postmen get in via an access code on a different panel at the bottom right of the pic of the panel, but these guys don't seem to touch that, just the doorbell panel.

 

[ridethelightning]

Actually, I see the video I posted showing what we can see them doing has been removed. Apologies if I shouldn't have posted it.

Basically they are doing something, perhaps around the middle of doorbell keypad. Very quick movement using a couple of fingers/maybe with a device and then in.

 

[hightower]

You've actually watched them do it? Why not ask them. First thing we do when a student finds a work around in the computer system at work is pull them in and tell them to show us so we can patch.

 

[snowhead]

but these guys don't seem to touch that, just the doorbell panel.

Are you sure about that.
They could have the Postmans code and are doing a bit of misdirection to cover what they do.

What have the Unauthorised people been doing or what have they to gain by getting past the outer door.?

The release for the lock is usually in the frame, they do wear out like any other mechanical device.

 

[ridethelightning]

There is a keyhole camera above the keypad (but you can't see the actual keypad numbers on camera). We ran down and asked one guy once, only to get a load of verbal abuse. Will certainly try again if we get another opportunity but, yeah, I agree that would certainly solve the problem! We also tried to call one of the takeaway places but got nowhere, don't want to know it seems.

 

[snowhead]

I'd fit one of these above the door entry/ keypad first

http://www.lightinthebox.com/pir-mo...205120283594&gclid=CI7llonk5M4CFcYp0wodhjwLnw

 

[ridethelightning]

Are you sure about that.
They could have the Postmans code and are doing a bit of misdirection to cover what they do.

What have the Unauthorised people been doing or what have they to gain by getting past the outer door.?

The release for the lock is usually in the frame, they do wear out like any other mechanical device.

Yeah, it was on the video link that was removed, they don't seem to go anywhere near the posties code pad. I guess they could be cleverly deceiving us somehow. Code compromise is certainly a possibility.

Thanks for info re the lock/frame. Worth us checking that out.

 

[ridethelightning]

I'd fit one of these above the door entry/ keypad first

http://www.lightinthebox.com/pir-mo...205120283594&gclid=CI7llonk5M4CFcYp0wodhjwLnw

Brilliant idea, thanks.

 

[ridethelightning]

What have the Unauthorised people been doing or what have they to gain by getting past the outer door.?

Sorry, missed this bit: post has been going missing and there has been some credit card fraud. The police have been involved, but they don't seem to know how these guys are getting in either.

 

[rolyberkin]

hightower has the solution just ask them! Why try and guess what is going wrong and spend money when the answer is staring you in the face? I read all the answers and kept asking why doesn't he just ask them! The answer is probably that the door just doesn't close properly! just seeing the lock I could bypass it in 20 seconds, but I bet the method I would use would not be what the leaflet droppers are using.

 

[ridethelightning]

Absolutely agree on asking them but that isn't as easy as it may seem. We have tried (and failed) on the one opportunity we've had but they normally come when most people are out at work, so a bit tricky to catch them. Plus when at home, it is impossible to keep watch all day. Those who are up to no good are unlikely to ring anyone's doorbell either.

Will certainly be asking again if we get another chance but I don't imagine they will be massively keen to tell us how they are getting in, so we can stop it. I just wondered if there was anything obvious that people who know far more about this stuff than me can help with.

Lock definitely does close properly. Worrying that it could be bypassed in 20 seconds by (yet) another method though! I guess there's no such thing as 100% security.

 

[Darkwood]

I reviewed you posted link and saw it shows no real security content so popped it back in you post, my apologies on this for taking it out but had to air on the side of caution as i was reviewing it via a mobile, I cannot see anything incriminating or a security issue, looks like he knows a code he shouldn't.

 

[Richard Burns]

There is no method of pressing buttons on the outside of that unit that could cause the door to open unless the inside of the unit has been rewired in some way, the power supply for the door lock does not go to those buttons.

 

[hightower]

Definitely no such thing as 100% security. We have servers individually locked, in a locked rack, which is in a locked cupboard of a locked room. Would be a pain to steal them I admit, but if someone wanted them bad enough they'd be gone.

 

[UNG]

Looks very easy to bypass that locking arrangement, very typical of security on the cheap where some or all of the components used are easily compromised because they are not fit for purpose

Is the door release fail open or fail secure?

 

[ridethelightning]

Thanks all. Fail open, I think.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, it was on the video link that was removed, they don't seem to go anywhere near the posties code pad. I guess they could be cleverly deceiving us somehow. Code compromise is certainly a possibility.

Thanks for info re the lock/frame. Worth us checking that out.

I don't think we've removed a video. Add it again.