C2 or C3 ? Wrong brand of mcb

[newfutile]

Which code would you give to a Wylex board populated with Hagar mcbs ,Wylex main switch and Wylex rcd.
Wylex once told me that nsb and nh breakers are not allowed on the same busbar !

 

[Deleted account]

Probably C3, unless the buzbar it’s attached to is warped as a result of poor fitting, then I’d C2, but normally just a C3 for me.

 

[Dustydazzler]

As above ,

If the MCB fits neatly onto the bar then its a C3

If the bar is mangled twisted bent to get the MCB on it then C2

 

[pc1966]

As above, agrees with the BPG #4

Code C3 - Improvement recommended

Mixed branded switchgear components within a consumer unit or distribution board where:

• there are no signs of thermal damage to component or associated connections
• the enclosure/assembly hasn’t been modified to allow installation of the component
• the component is securely fitted and all connections are adequate
• correct manual operation of the component
• direction of use of toggles/switches is the same as existing devices

Note: If any of the above criteria is not met, this would warrant a code C2 classification to be recorded.

 

[buzzlightyear]

c2 does not meet manufacturers instructions .

 

[telectrix]

C3 in my book, if no problems like mentioned before.

 

[brianmoooore]

Based solely on the appearance from the outside, I'd be absolutely fine with that, but it would still attract a C3, plus another one for being plastic. Would need to see with the cover off before a final decision.

 

[pc1966]

Actually I would like to know why it ended up like that. After all, Wylex MCBs are not exactly hard to come by and Hager are, while good products, not exactly the cheapest choice either.

Very odd!

 

[newfutile]

Maybe it had NSB Wylex once, i work for a housing association so its hard to figure out what the contractors thought ,the case was quite badly butchered and cracked so I have installed a new consumer unit today !

 

[brianmoooore]

• direction of use of toggles/switches is the same as existing devices

So what's the consensus on Wylex 3036 boards fitted with plug in MCBs? MCBs are 'down' for off; older 3036 boards are 'up' for off on the main switch.

 

[pc1966]

So what's the consensus on Wylex 3036 boards fitted with plug in MCBs? MCBs are 'down' for off; older 3036 boards are 'up' for off on the main switch.

Interesting point, though I guess all such plug-in MCBs operate the same way though!

EDIT: That is also a UK versus EU+USA sort of thing. Our convention for most switches has been down=on but I often see up=on abroad.

 

[pc1966]

the case was quite badly butchered and cracked so I have installed a new consumer unit today !

OK, problem solved!

Still, interesting to see what folks think about it anyway.

 

[pc1966]

So what's the consensus on Wylex 3036 boards fitted with plug in MCBs? MCBs are 'down' for off; older 3036 boards are 'up' for off on the main switch.

Also I guess in that specific case it is not "mixed brand" or against the manufacturer's recommendation as Wylex make them specifically for their own 3036 boards!

The cover and/or any danger of fingers accessing live parts is another issue of course.. I have cut out the inside of the lid before so it fits round a set of MCBs OK.

Still, even allowing for the cover (or lack of) my own feeling is they are a safety upgrade for such boards as few folk in the general public are competent to change fuse wire (getting both rating and terminations correct) and the risk of plugging the fuse in to a live board, and possibly on to a fault, to me is far higher than the risk of someone idly pulling one out to poke the terminals. Also I think those MCBs are all 3kA breaking, so higher than many of the 3036 fuse/carriers deliver.

Obviously not nearly as good as a new CU with RCD, etc, but better than leaving some old codger to try and fit 5A wire in the dark.

 

[brianmoooore]

the risk of plugging the fuse in to a live board, and possibly on to a fault,

Did that once.
Didn't do it again!

 

[newfutile]

The is BEAMA‘s advice on the matter, which says no!
As they represent the manufactures and the regs say we must take that into account, i think the answer must be a C2 for wrong brand Mcb installed.

 

[pc1966]

This would be the same BEAMA who are on the list of those behind BPG #4 that has the C3/C2 guidance above?

Mind you, that s not so different from NICEIC who say C2 for no RCD no matter what in thier own EICR guidance, but they also are part of BPG #4 that has the C3/C2 guidance based on risk factors.

 

[Deleted account]

manufacturers instructions make no difference to my post earlier.

if you do not adhere to manufaturers instructions , it does not nessisarily mean the installation is potentially or immediately dangerous.

so someone fits an mcb that isn’t the same make as board was designed for, but it fits well, has no impact on other Mcb’s and the buzz bar. Are you saying this scenario is potentially dangerous?
it’s not.

fair enough due to regs and manufacturers instruction# I would not mix breakers, but if it was done prior to my inspection and all was well I would at worst C3 it.

 

[buzzlightyear]

manufacturers instructions make no difference to my post earlier.

if you do not adhere to manufaturers instructions , it does not nessisarily mean the installation is potentially or immediately dangerous.

so someone fits an mcb that isn’t the same make as board was designed for, but it fits well, has no impact on other Mcb’s and the buzz bar. Are you saying this scenario is potentially dangerous?
it’s not.

fair enough due to regs and manufacturers instruction# I would not mix breakers, but if it was done prior to my inspection and all was well I would at worst C3 it.

ok the argument is a mcb fitted in a different manufacturer board and some body is stupidly fit one like mr diy or some body is not qualified to the regs , the board catches fire.
you have inspected it and you ok it so ,the insurance company will apply the rules and then what .

 

[pc1966]

some body is stupidly fit one like mr diy or some body is not qualified to the regs , the board catches fire.

But that bodged case is already covered by the BPG#4 guidance.

• No modification of enclosure/assembly = fits without cutting front or bending bus-bar, etc.
• Component is securely fitted and all connections are adequate = above but in more detail
• No signs of thermal damage to component or associated connections = above has not been causing trouble so far.

If it has been butchered to fit, or even if it a little bending of the busbar as its not quite the right location, it is a C2 fail in my mind.

After all, it is possible to fit a matching MCB badly and cause as much if not more fire risk simply buy fscking up the connections! (busbar not clamped as it missed the cage, or terminals loose, or insulation of wire caught by clamp, etc, etc)

 

[Deleted account]

you have inspected it and you ok it so ,the insurance company will apply the rules and then what .

I like your argument up to a point,
however I don’t ok it. I C3 it.
improvement recomended.

TBH I have in past not always C3 ‘ed it. In future even if it’s perfect I think I will.