Deemed Output - you may lose it if you have a Smart Meter fitted later on.

[Worcester]

Actually the legislation says that deeming only applies if there is no registered export meter in use. So if the supplier registers the SmartMeter for export as well as import then the readings from it would have to be used for calculating FiT export payments and the deeming would stop for that particular installation.

I would expect most, if not all, suppliers to register any SmartMeters they install over the coming years for both import and export where there is existing microgeneration on site. Assuming they get their act together and don't fit SmartMeters that are not capable of measuring export - which has already been happening.
​

Until a few days ago, I had assumed that if you'd signed up for FiTs with no export meter (<30kWp), then you got deemed output and go paid 50% of what you generated for export.

Bearing in mind that MOST people actually export more than 50% (even the 2.5kWp systems) because it is difficult to use it when it is generated (without an ImmerSun or similar device) then the FiT providers / energy companies were actually on to a good thing.

I THOUGHT that was what the legislation said, however TedM (many thanks) pointed out that this is what it actually says:

What DECC say
http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/.../1_20100312140940_e_@@_factsheetondeeming.pdf
"Strictly as an interim measure, payment of export tariffs to generators of 30kW or less of total installed capacity will be made on the basis of deemed or estimated exports."
Why?
"In the Government’s response document, we confirmed our intention that all FITs payments should be made on the basis of electricity metered in accordance with the strict requirements of the Electricity Act 1989 and subsequent legislation and regulations. This is because there is a need to ensure that all electricity flows benefiting from FITs, including exports, should be subject to accurate measurement to ensure value for money and the integrity of the scheme. This will become increasingly important as exports from small scale generators will become a larger part of the electricity market."

What Ofgem say as guidance to the FiT Providers:
"Exported electricity can be deemed for installations with a TIC of 30kW or less where no export meter exists."

They also explain about the Generator's (the PV System owner) choices for taking or not export payments.

So what will happen when Smart Meters are installed?

No one could tell me! - I spoke with Ofgem who referred me to the new Energy Saving advice line who were completely clueless, and they referred me to teh EST's website:
Feed-In Tariff schemes explained - UK Feed-In Tariffs and solar FITs
Where it says:
"Export tariff: you will get a further 4.5p/kWh (non-solar PV from 1 December 2012) from your energy supplier for each unit you export back to the electricity grid, so you can sell any electricity
you generate but don't use yourself. This rate is the same for all technologies. At some stage smart meters will be installed to measure what you export, but until then it is estimated as being 50% of the electricity you generate (only systems above 30kWp need to have an export meter fitted, and a domestic system is unlikely to be that big)."


So does this mean that ANYONE who has a smart meter retrospectively installed that is capable of measuring export will suddenly NOT be on deemed export?

If so they will have fun with one of our sites which has three systems installed all on different tariffs

or does it mean for NEW systems?

Can I REFUSE to have a Smart Meter installed? - It looks like it!

OFFICIAL: Smart meters won't be compulsory ? The Register
"A DECC spokesman told us:This is not actually new. While smart metering brings significant benefits, it will not be an offence for householders to refuse to accept a smart meter and we have made it clear that we do not expect suppliers to seek an entry warrant simply to fit smart metering equipment."

and Smart meters for energy to be voluntary - Telegraph

So it looks like our advice to PV owners should be to REFUSE a smart meter.

​

 

[jason121]

I have a smart meter fitted on my house my first ultilty , now i am with ecotricity and they dont use smart meters for reading import usage, I have been told that some smart meters fitted my EON are being taken out, being faulty regarding readings

 

[Gavin A]

the reason nobody can tell anyone anything is that they haven't finalised the standards for smart meters yet, and it's not even clear if they will measure export or not.

IMO most people will be better off with smart meters, as they're currently only being paid export for 50% of generation, but are actually exporting 70% or so. very high energy consumers will be worse off, but overall people will be better off with metered export, and the energy companies will be worse off with it, which is why I'm sceptical that they'll deploy it at all voluntarily.

 

[Somecamel]

Smart Meters will be the start of charging you differing prices per KWh depending on the time of day. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing

 

[Worcester]

@Gavin A, the energy companies will and won't be better off:

They have a target to meet of renewables energy so if it is more than 50% it will help them towards that target (and penalties to pay if they don't meet it). Also as a generator if you have an export meter fitted you can still opt out of FIT export payments and sell your excess generation on the open market - which is why some FiT providers will pay more for metered export, also why they want HH meters on the larger systems (when metered)

 

[Worcester]

With British Gas's Latest TV adverts, I thought it time to bump this up again!

IF you are a British Gas electricty customer AND they pay your FIT, and you have a system over 2.5kWp or you have an ImmerSun type device fitted, my advice would be to refuse to have a smart meter fitted.

 

[pwboston]

If you are with EON for Fits payments and go with BG to have their meter fitted etc, would that export meter be used to inform the FIT "Payer"

Also for interest I have had BG ring me twice in the last week, 1st time I informed them i am 2 months into a 12 month deal with EON, the 2nd time, they offered to fit a smart meter and if i moved to them I would have free electric every weekend during daylight hours. I have not heard of this before and so the smart meter and (solar PV) is making a difference.

I told him it still wouldnt benefit me as i had solar PV, it was only when i put the phone down that i thought, should i negotiate if they ring again and try and get free electric in the economy 7 period then ill be on a winner.

 

[Worcester]

I've seen the BG deal before, of course it allows them to start charging different rates by day of week, time of day (just like the big consumers on HH metering) electricity for domestic at weekends is cheap as households consume less than 25% of all leccy, so with the fact that you can't shut down most power stations they've got lots to go around..

I expect that within 6 months ofgem will tell them to swap that data between smart meter and FiT providers, so at the moment their systems won't / don't cope I don;t expect that to last for long.

The big Q how many people know what there weekend leccy is anyway?

Means doing all the washing etc on a Saturday again!