ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

As announced yesterday the ECA and ESC have formed a new partnership for the good of the industry.

From April next year the NICEIC and ELECSA brands will be operated by a new venture called Certsure giving the industry a stronger voice to government and major stakeholders.

The move will bring many benefits to NICEIC and ELECSA registrants, the first of which is the creation of www.electricalsafetyregister.com a definitive searchable database of more than 30 000 registered electricians.

As part of our policy to be open and informative about the merger we have set up this thread for anyone to ask any questions or queries they might have.

A member of the NICEIC team will monitor the site at various points over the next week and provide answers to any questions you might have about the move.

We want you to get involved and look forward to hearing from you.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Now there is a brave brave man

 

[kingeri]

Will Elecsa and the NIC continue to exist as separate brands?

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

Yes the NICEIC and ELECSA brands will still contiune to operate separately as normal.

 

[Steve_P]

I got that yesterday - and a new van sticker. I'll certainly be watching this thread.

 

[Octopus]

OK. Why didn't Napit and Stroma sign up too?

Napit have their own scheme and then theres the Competent person website too.

All this is likely to do is confuse Joe Public.

 

[badwolf]

As a Napit member why can't I join the electrical safety register? Surely it's all about safety not what provider you belong too?

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

The ECA and ESC have been working for nearly two years to form a meaningful partnership and joint governance over NICEIC and ELECSA. TheRegister is just the first benefit for those ELECSA and NICEIC contractors, aswell as ECA members. The Charity has tried in the not too distant past tocreate one register for the promotion of contractors from many schemes, butsome schemes did not want to participate. www.electricalsafetyregister.comwas therefore developed. It costs nothing to NICEIC, ELECSA and ECA members tobe included and is another place for potential customers can find them.

Here is an interview between Professional Electrician (PE)magazine and our chief executive officer Emma Clancy which may explain thingsfurther:

PE: This is a major announcement for theindustry. What exactly is happening?
EC: We’re delighted to announce that the ECA and ESC are creating ajoint venture company, called Certsure, which from Spring 2013 will operate theNICEIC and ELECSA brands as well as ECA assessments. As a symbol of how thepartnership will deliver many benefits to the industry and the general public,ECA and ESC have launched the Electrical Safety Register, which means you canfind ELECSA, NICEIC and ECA registered members in one place. We believethis will be a great benefit to those looking to specify electrical contractingwork. The ECA, ESC and Certsure will work hard to promote our customers totheir customers through the Register.

PE: Why have ECA and ESC partnered like this?
EC: Well, we’ve listened! We’ve listened to our customers, to governmentand to homeowners and specifiers of contracting work. They have all said to usthat the industry is too disparate, there are too many logos and we should beworking together more to promote the industry and the great electricalcontractors who are registered with us.

PE: So what changes for ELECSA and NICEIC customers?
EC: Firstly, NICEIC and ELECSA customers do not need to change theirvans or letterheads, their assessor does not change and they can go to theirusual websites, www.niceic.comand www.elecsa.co.uk. In fact, they need not doanything. What does change is that in addition to their usual NICEIC and ELECSAregistration they will also be automatically added to the Electrical SafetyRegister. We’ve sent every customer a van sticker and there are more on thesecure area of our websites.

The new partnership will directly benefit the industry - we'll be able to putmore money into promoting contractors to commercial customers and the public.Customers will be able to access many new and existing benefits, which we willbegin to communicate over the coming months. We commit to great customerservice taking the best elements of ELECSA and NICEIC. We will listen and befair. We commit to great customer service taking the best elements of ELECSAand NICEIC. We will listen and be fair.


PE: So an ELECSA registrant can’t claim to be NICEIC registeredand vice versa?
EC: No, the schemes are accredited and run in parallel for now. But theycan in addition use the Electrical Safety Register logo. They use theirnormal websites, notify work in the same way and so on. We’ve made this assimple as possible for our customers and simpler for people to find them.

PE: Where are you promoting the Register?
EC: We are writing to specifiers across the UK and those letters havealready gone out. We will be advertising the Register in key magazines, for instanceto Local Authorities and Housing Associations and promoting it to consumers inthe national and local press. We will ensure that the Electrical SafetyRegister becomes the one place everyone can find a great electrician.

PE: Will other scheme operators have their contractors listedon there?
EC: To start with it will be ELECSA, NICEIC and ECA customers on theRegister. We hope over time it will grow. Any organisation wishing to joinwould need to show a demonstrable support for the other organisations involvedand commit to meeting a consistently high standard. I think customers ofELECSA, NICEIC and ECA as well as homeowners and specifiers would want to bereassured that high standards of assessments are met.

PE: Is this all because of what’s happening to Part P?
EC: No. As I sit and talk to you, nothing has been announced by CLG onPart P. The Electrical Safety Register isn’t just for domestic installers,there are NICEIC Approved Contractors and ECA members on there too. Part P ispart of the Building Regulations and it’s referenced on the site forhouseholders to understand.

PE: Is this in anyway anti-competitive?
EC: No. Choice is still out there for the contractor, there is somethinglike six other competent person scheme providers. My promise is that we willlisten and be fair as an organisation and that the best of NICEIC and ELECSAwill be brought together so every one of our customers feels valued. Don’tforget, our revenues go towards the benefit of the industry, not forshareholders profits. And our customers can be reassured that we will promotethem to their customers. The Electrical Safety Register brings them togetherwith the backing of the ECA and the ESC. I think that’s where the choice ofscheme is important.

PE: Will you move to make the Register mandatory like the GasSafe Register?
EC: There are several factors as to why this isn’t possible. Firstly youjust have to listen to our customers to realise how tough the economic climateis. Anything that increased costs for contractors wouldn’t be right at thistime. Secondly, there is no appetite at government level to do this and thiswas clear at the recent Select Committee on Part P. Thirdly industry needs tosolve its own problems and stand united on the big issues. This is a new startto get that right, seize the initiative for electrical contractors and promoteour great industry properly

 

[BlueToBits]

Well I'm going to put my head above the parapet. You asked for questions and comments....

.......
EC: We’re delighted to announce that the ECA and ESC are creating ajoint venture company, called Certsure....

What will happen to Acertiva, the company that already owns the NICEIC brand? Has Ascertiva effectively sold the NICEIC to the ECA?

.......
PE: Why have ECA and ESC partnered like this?
EC: Well, we’ve listened! We’ve listened to our customers, to governmentand to homeowners and specifiers of contracting work. They have all said to usthat the industry is too disparate, there are too many logos and we should beworking together more to promote the industry and the great electricalcontractors who are registered with us. ....

So to address these concerns and accusations of the industry being too disparate, it was thought that what everybody wanted was a new level of approval, another new web address and another logo on vans and stationary promoting a partial and fragmented list of available contractors?

.......
The new partnership will directly benefit the industry - we'll be able to putmore money into promoting contractors to commercial customers and the public.Customers will be able to access many new and existing benefits, which we willbegin to communicate over the coming months. We commit to great customerservice taking the best elements of ELECSA and NICEIC. We will listen and befair. We commit to great customer service taking the best elements of ELECSAand NICEIC. We will listen and be fair....

Where will this extra money come from and how much will be budgeted? The general public may not need an electrician for many years, do you expect them to remember a press advert they may have read years earlier? Specifiers already know about our industry approval authorities, The general public are mostly unaware of Part P let alone the scheme providers which authorise an installation company to carry out this work. If the general public are aware, the specifiers will also be aware so surely there is no need to target them, the register needs to be as well known as Gas Safe.

What will there be that requires you to be 'fair'?

.......
PE: So an ELECSA registrant can’t claim to be NICEIC registeredand vice versa?
EC: No, the schemes are accredited and run in parallel for now....

What is the time-scale for this amalgamation? Will there still be a distinction between a NICEIC Approved Contractor and a NICEIC Domestic Installer?

.......
PE: Will other scheme operators have their contractors listedon there?
EC: To start with it will be ELECSA, NICEIC and ECA customers on theRegister. We hope over time it will grow. Any organisation wishing to joinwould need to show a demonstrable support for the other organisations involvedand commit to meeting a consistently high standard. I think customers ofELECSA, NICEIC and ECA as well as homeowners and specifiers would want to bereassured that high standards of assessments are met....

Can we assume then that the ESC/ECA partnership does not believe that NAPIT and other scheme operators do not show support to other organisations, nor commit to consistently high standards?

.......
PE: Is this all because of what’s happening to Part P?
EC: No. As I sit and talk to you, nothing has been announced by CLG onPart P. The Electrical Safety Register isn’t just for domestic installers,there are NICEIC Approved Contractors and ECA members on there too. Part P ispart of the Building Regulations and it’s referenced on the site forhouseholders to understand....

So householders using the new site will also have to refer to the NICEIC or ELECSA site after they have chosen their contractor from the register site? Is this making it easier for our customers who, at the moment only need to visit one site?

.......


PE: Is this in anyway anti-competitive?
EC: No. Choice is still out there for the contractor, ...
...
PE: Will you move to make the Register mandatory like the GasSafe Register?
EC: There are several factors as to why this isn’t possible. Firstly youjust have to listen to our customers to realise how tough the economic climateis. Anything that increased costs for contractors wouldn’t be right at thistime. Secondly, there is no appetite at government level to do this and thiswas clear at the recent Select Committee on Part P. Thirdly industry needs tosolve its own problems and stand united on the big issues.

There is too much choice. I don't want any choice. I would like to see the whole thing simplified to just one mandatory approval authority. Electric Safe. An authority with the sole interest of electrical safety, not trying compete with other authorities or to make profit. This would be cheaper and more efficient and fair for all.

It is the scheme controllers' duty to lobby government and to generate an appetite for electrical safety, with so many providers it is too easy for one to leave this responsibility to another. If the government can't be made to take an interest in electrical safety, what chance have we got with the general public?

The various scheme providers must take some of the blame for many of our industry's problems. They all have their own agenda, rule book and standards. They all put profit before safety, or use safety as an excuse to generate profit. Their main activity is to generate membership income rather than promote electrical safety standards to the general public.

This is potentially a big change in our industry, but it seems to only involve 2 of the 6 or so scheme providers. We are told that we don't need to do anything or make any changes to the way we operate. Is this partnership equal and formed with the sole interest in attempting to clarify the confusion within the approval standards of our industry without financial gain by either partner?

Electrical safety should be mandatory, non profit making, non competitive. It works in the gas industry, it should be the same in the electrical industry.

Apologies for the inconsistent fonts.

 

[Engineer54]

That's a laugh, the Dammed Scam Providers caused most, if not many of the problems in our industry in the first place!!

You talk about electrical safety as being the holy grail in one hand, and with the other hand your actively registering 17 DAY WIZZ KIDS as competent persons enabling them to go into unsuspecting peoples homes to carry out electrical work!! A bit of Double standards at work here!! ...lol!!

There must be an angle where you (the Scam companies) will financially benefit, maybe not now, but in the future. This is the initial ground work, to build this thing up to a recognised level. Then when the time suits you, it will be an increase in fee's, or extra costs to use the logo or whatever!!

 

[Guest55]

.... for the good of the industry.

No waaaaay am i missing the chance to troll out the NIC.
;-)

 

[Octopus]

OK. Why didn't Napit and Stroma sign up too?

Napit have their own scheme and then theres the Competent person website too.

All this is likely to do is confuse Joe Public.

I'll see if our nice man will answer this!!

 

[Kiers1970]

What's that song??? 'Money makes the world go round'

 

[Knobhead]

All this is likely to do is confuse Joe Public.

Be realistic Murdoch, Mr. Joe Public haven't a clue about nor even care about any scam, he's never heard of them.

 

[Octopus]

Be realistic Murdoch, Mr. Joe Public haven't a clue about nor even care about any scam, he's never heard of them.

Precisely my point.

Before Gas Safe there was Corgi and 90% of people recognise them.... but the idiots "in charge" of electrics think they can duplicate and duplicate - they'd all fit in the EU machine nicely.

 

[Knobhead]

Thought they ran the EU, costs a fortune to run but does no useful work.

 

[Guest55]

i'm actually thinking of setting up my own scheme , biffcompetantcowboy.com

i offer FREE van go-faster stripes !!!

 

[Spudnik]

Can we please keep this thread on topic.

Thanks.

 

[lushers]

Absolute sham, completely pointless exercise. What our industry needs like a hole in the head is yet another 'scheme' to confuse customers. It's quite simple: all contractors need to comply with one legally required body; a la heating engineers with gas safe, then there's little, if any confusion. Judging by the way this latest NIC/ELECSA love in has occurred, this isn't going to happen any time soon.... I hope I'm wrong

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

Morning all, thanks for the comments. I will try to answeras many as possible.
Is this move just thecreation of another scheme?
No. The merger between ECA and ESC is not another scheme.The NICEIC and ELECSA brands will continue to operate alongside each other.Registrants do not need to change anything. The electricalsafetyregister is asite that combines the best of both brands. It is the definitive, searchabledatabase to find electricians from NICEIC, ELECSA and ECA.
What happens toAscertiva?
The Ascertiva Group will continue to exist. The AscertivaGroup is a global company and will still be serviced by its NQA and Puragenbrands.
Fragmentation of theindustry
Rather than fragment we are bringing together two of thebiggest brands in the industry together to create a stronger voice togovernment, stakeholders, contractors and householders. Theelectricalasafetyregister will become the number one destination for anyonelooking to employ an electrician and will be promoted to customers andspecifiers of electrical work accordingly.
Other schemeoperators
As mentioned previously the new Joint Venture is theculmination of two years hard work to bring some unity to the market. The ESChas tried in recent years to bring all schemes together under one register butsome operators did not want to co operate.
Promotion of Part P
The electricalsafetyregister is about more than Part P – it containsdetails of all registered firms not just domestic installers. However, werecognise that promoting Part P to householders is an important issue and madethis point to government in our recent response to the DCLG consultation.
Domestic Installer,Approved Contractor and Fees.
The NICEIC Domestic Installer Scheme and Approved ContractorScheme are unaffected by this move. They continue to run as normal and the contactdetails for either scheme remain the same.
Fees will also be unaffected. In fact there is a currentsmall difference (around £9) between what NICEIC Domestic Installers pay and thosewith the ELECSA scheme pay, based on Direct Debit payments. We will now ensurethat these are aligned to the lower figure. NICEIC has frozen its fees for four of thelast five years

 

[amberleaf]

NICEIC-ENGINEER .

Welcome to the forum . and taking the time to post .

 

[kingeri]

It just seems unfair that Joe Public will search the database and those folks in NAPIT will not come up on it, suggesting to the public that they are in some way less or even not competent.

 

[BlueToBits]

It just seems unfair that Joe Public will search the database and those folks in NAPIT will not come up on it, suggesting to the public that they are in some way less or even not competent.

Welcome to enlightenment. You have 2 options. You stand your ground and complain to anyone who will listen, or you pay your money to the NICEIC or ECA/ELECSA . Why do you think this partnership was created?

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve no use for schemes being retired, nor did I during my 40years working in the industrial field. So looking from the outside I really can’t see any advantages to any scheme. A national register yes, but this would have to be out of the hands of the mandarins in their ivory towers.

I envisage the various schemes all folding due to political in fighting and the rush to make money from the current crop of unskilled, ill-prepared trades men.

The government has its share of the blame with the introduction of ill thought out regulations which have been corrupted in to money making schemes. Training has gone to the dogs with training providers putting profit first with the blessing of the government.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

As for Mr. J Public, he’s never heard of you and basically couldn’t care less. The Electrical Safety Council, which should be a force to be reckoned with, is instead like a voice in the wilderness that no one is listening to.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I’ve no use for schemes being retired, nor did I during my 40years working in the industrial field. So looking from the outside I really can’t see any advantages to any scheme. A national register yes, but this would have to be out of the hands of the mandarins in their ivory towers.

I envisage the various schemes all folding due to political in fighting and the rush to make money from the current crop of unskilled, ill-prepared trades men.

The government has its share of the blame with the introduction of ill thought out regulations which have been corrupted in to money making schemes. Training has gone to the dogs with training providers putting profit first with the blessing of the government.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

As for Mr. J Public, he’s never heard of you and basically couldn’t care less. The Electrical Safety Council, which should be a force to be reckoned with, is instead like a voice in the wilderness that no one is listening to.

Tony have you any of those pills going spare, because I do not think anyone here could have penned this better or more succinctly.

I proffered in another thread, that though they are far from perfect the JIB are perhaps the nearest and best suited to carry the mantle for an Electricians Register.

They cover all areas and at least have standards, that are not swayed by the colour your money.

My once proud trade has gone from a highly respected position in society to be on a par with a back street mechanic.

That my friend says it all, a trade destroyed by narrow minded governments who over the years thought that trades were a thing of the past, things like manufacturing, coal, steel, ship building was a dirty word, and that the future was a service driven industry where we would all sell insurance, banking services and work in call centres, if there are any left.

Now it is coming back to haunt them, with a population of 60 odd million and not an handful of tradesmen, in any discipline, you can shake a stick at. Just some poorly trained lads, who through no fault of their own, have been lied to and conned into thinking they are getting trained

 

[RJT_94]

So basicly anyone with Napit and Storma are stuffed, if this takes off and the public see it as like the gas register. Anyone not in will start lossing work as they are not on this register. Yet again fully competent hard working sparks are going to be bent further over the table! why there cant just be a level playing feild and all schemes are in it bafles me.

Hello NICECI ENGINEER, What is going to be done to get other schemes on board and shouldnt it have been done proir to the register being open. Surely it entered someones head that its not going to work and cause confusion with customers without all schemes in!

 

[kingeri]

The register must be open to members of all schemes, otherwise it just sucks big time. I'm actually quite annoyed by this, so much so that I can't formulate an intelligent post at the moment.

 

[Spoon]

The register must be open to members of all schemes, otherwise it just sucks big time. I'm actually quite annoyed by this, so much so that I can't formulate an intelligent post at the moment.

Discrimination springs to mind....

 

[RJT_94]

Just awaiting a response to my email to Napit, if I get oneback that is.

 

[BlueToBits]

So basicly anyone with Napit and Storma are stuffed, if this takes off and the public see it as like the gas register. Anyone not in will start lossing work as they are not on this register. Yet again fully competent hard working sparks are going to be bent further over the table! why there cant just be a level playing feild and all schemes are in it bafles me.

Hello NICECI ENGINEER, What is going to be done to get other schemes on board and shouldnt it have been done proir to the register being open. Surely it entered someones head that its not going to work and cause confusion with customers without all schemes in!

He answered this here.

...Other schemeoperators
As mentioned previously the new Joint Venture is theculmination of two years hard work to bring some unity to the market. The ESChas tried in recent years to bring all schemes together under one register butsome operators did not want to co operate.
...

You can read what you like into the word "cooperate" but I know what I think.
The main thing here is 'IF it takes off..'. Previous track records of publicising electrical scheme operators have fallen very short of making any electrical scheme a household name. So NAPIT and STORMA (whoever they are) are not necessarily stuffed. This partnership is obviously formed to encourage NAPIT and STORMA members into joinig NICEIC or ELECSA. It may not be such a bad thing to do. The joining and assessment criteria and fees must be much the same. Go with the one you think overall offers the best benefits to you. Loyalty to one scheme or another is pretty much irrelevant.