ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[BlueToBits]

I think a reality check is in order here. The NICEIC ECA NAPIT et al are competing businesses, not regulatory bodies. They, like us, are here to make a profit. It's not their fault, it's what the government decided when they introduced PP. This NICEIC/ECA business partnership is a shrewd move, which, if it comes off will significantly strengthen their position and go a significant way to squeezing out their competitors. If the industry wants to replace these businesses with one regulatory body then it should lobby the likes of parliament, IET, BSi and possibly ESC. An independent would need to come forward to spearhead such a campaign. A scheme operator would never do this as to do so would be to sign their own death warrant.To be successful, the campaign would need irrefutable headline stats showing that the present system was not working.

If the NICEIC and ECA had partnered 20 years ago the industry would probably by now have one single compulsory regulatory body and no part P.

 

[AP Electrical]

I think a reality check is in order here. The NICEIC ECA NAPIT et al are competing businesses, not regulatory bodies. They, like us, are here to make a profit. It's not their fault, it's what the government decided when they introduced PP. This NICEIC/ECA business partnership is a shrewd move, which, if it comes off will significantly strengthen their position and go a significant way to squeezing out their competitors. If the industry wants to replace these businesses with one regulatory body then it should lobby the likes of parliament, IET, BSi and possibly ESC. An independent would need to come forward to spearhead such a campaign. A scheme operator would never do this as to do so would be to sign their own death warrant.To be successful, the campaign would need irrefutable headline stats showing that the present system was not working.

If the NICEIC and ECA had partnered 20 years ago the industry would probably by now have one single compulsory regulatory body and no part P.

While I agree with your point it doesn't detract from the fact they them selfs are part of the problem. They talk about great standards etc but as we all know there's plenty of competant scheme members who are incapable of doing the job but are assessed as competant every year. For these two to come together and say we're going to sort this mess out is nothing but comical. They have in part helped to devalue the industry through greed, and now stand in front of the gov committee proclaiming we're the guys to sort this..... Crazy dayz

 

[Knobhead]

Re: "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"".

Could you post a link to these, this is the first that I as a householder have heard of it. If the promotion of you're selective register is to be promoted on the same level, it will be as I said in my first post on this subject, totaly unheard of outside the electrical contracting industry.
By selective I mean you will only promote paid up members of your club. As to the competence of those people I'll keep my peace.

I personally don’t think it’s possible for an organisation that is driven purely for monetary reasons and that doesn’t represent all electricians to run a bi-partisan safety register. Only a truly independent body can do this.

This independent body would need the power to control the minimum qualification level to ensure the electrician is safe to undertake potentially dangerous work in a customer’s property. This would be the death knell for all the current schemes as they would be superfluous to requirements.

You seem a good chap, but you have to sing whatever song your paymasters tell you. I would dearly like to know you’re personal views in light of the comments made here. Comments by many who are members of your particular scheme.

 

[ezzzekiel]

as Tony states
Re: "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"". i as a member of the pulic and an electrician have never heard of any of these campaings and if i was to mention partp to anyone other than an electrician they wouldnt know the foggiest

 

[malcolmsanford]

I've deliberately backed off of this debate mainly due to the fact that I have and do care passionately about my trade.

My trade has given me a good life style, I can't say that I've enjoyed every minute of it, but I have in the whole loved it. I have met fantastic people, been challenged nearly every day of my working life and being in the industry has defined me.

40 odd years ago I left school and was signed onto a JIB apprenticeship and the number on my deeds was 018........ etc so I was pretty much one of the first.

The then NICEIC was the only real player on the block, and in those days they were a charity, they may still have this status I know not. But they were in essence guardians of our trade. The NICEIC name was synonymous with quality and standards and respected.

I know that nothing, especially in the work place lasts forever, but I'm sorry to say that this really is no longer the case. I have no problem with a company making profits, but in making these profits companies often and do have to make decisions, take a course of action that is solely beneficial to them and can be at costs and this I believe as happened.

I would dearly love to know if the NICEIC/ESC/ELECSA truly believes that these DI courses are producing excellent standards within our industry. If they truly believe that an account in March can be a competent electrician in April, I'm sure we will never get a full answer to this.

I wonder though if this new alliance would transfer some of this money back into full training.

Could there be a scheme such as the Certsure Apprenticeship Scheme (CAS)? After all they have a ready made partner in apprenticeships that they could partner up with and who would I'm sure be able to input 40 odd years of experience to assist them .....the JIB

All it would need is for Certsure to encourage and contribute to a company to take young guys on. Perhaps set up a trust or foundation to pay a percentage of an apprentices costs for a 4 yr period, they could set up the total, say a start of figure of 2000 places a year and take it from there.

Surely doing something like this will pay more than just lip service to the sermon of "We are trying to raise standards" it would be physical tangible evidence that these are not hollow words spun out of making a profit, but they do in fact have the best interests of the industry at heart.

Times are truly hard, but even in hard times someone, somebody or some organisation must make decisions that will ensure the survival and the standards of the industry

 

[Johnuk]

we should see adverts on tv more i think,in papers to, to explain to the custumer what the card means,

the ecs card should be a standard, and add some more grade on it

and get ride of the all these miss leading quick step courses

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I feel one area where the NIC and others deliberately mislead is the so called Part P courses.
There are constant posters on here who claim to be 'doing their part P'.....nobody seems to have pointed out to them that part p is not a qualification....especially not the course providers raking in the cash.

And a big thankyou to all who have contributed to this important thread.....dont feel I can really add to whats been already said.....But if NICENGINEER has any brain cells he will pick up on the huge disatisfaction with the curren state of play in the industry over training,scheme scams and declining standards.......Which ARE declining whatever statistics he may come up with.

 

[Spudnik]

As the NICEIC engineer has already pointed out, if you wish to discuss other areas of the industry, please start a new thread.

Can we leave this one for discussions on the thread topic.

 

[malcolmsanford]

What other topics are you referring to Jason?

I think 90% of discussion on this thread is solely concerned with this new partnership and how it is going to affect our industry.

When you get a scheme on here that proposes to raise standards, to move our industry forward, to do this and that, then asking questions about training, how they intend to move things forward I feel are quite legitimate

 

[Engineer54]

What other topics are you referring to Jason?

I think 90% of discussion on this thread is solely concerned with this new partnership and how it is going to affect our industry.

When you get a scheme on here that proposes to raise standards, to move our industry forward, to do this and that, then asking questions about training, how they intend to move things forward I feel are quite legitimate

Agree.... Especially as this thread is based on these Providers flying the ''Safety Flag''!!

 

[imago]

OK, looking at this purely from self interest, and perhaps playing Devil's advocate.

Will it cost me anymore in the short term? No.
Will it cost anymore in the meduim/long term? Probably, but then the fees would inveitably have gone up anyway.
Will it do me or my business any harm? No.
Will it do me or my business any good? No.
Will it further harm the electrical industry? No.
Will it change things for the better within the industry? No.

So in summary, someone somewhere will benefit but it's unlikely to be me. As them benefitting won't cause me or my business any harm I'll moan and grumble a bit, then roll over and carry on as before.

So my comment directed to those who have made the changes; OK, but please don't expect me to be enthusiastic about a lot of fiddling round the edges or congratulate you for it.

 

[professional]

In response to Murdoch an answer is posted earlier in the thread.

The ESC has tried in the not too distant past to create one register for the promotion of contractors from many schemes, but some schemes did not want to participate. www.electricalsafetyregister.com was therefore developed for NICEIC, ELECSA and ECA registrants.

The ECA and ESC havebeen working for nearly two years to form a meaningful partnership and jointgovernance over NICEIC and ELECSA. The register is just the first benefit forthose ELECSA and NICEIC contractors, as well as ECA members.

What were the REASONS given for not wanting to join your register?

Less P&W and more facts!

 

[professional]

Personally, i think this is a step in the right direction.

Rubbish - it`s just protectionist drivel.

The NICEIC and ECA are scared to death of their contractors having a choice and voting with their feet.

I know of few contractors who join the NICEIC for anything other than the branding - they detest the "cowboys with a badge" just as much as the rest of us.

Incidentally, the NICEIC posts appear to be nothing more than advertising with little substance or information of any value - i.e. spam.

If I was suspicious I would think that the NICEIC was sponsoring this forum .... ?

 

[professional]

Morning All. Thanks for the comments. The thread was set upto answer questions specifically about the new Joint Venture. While i think we havestrayed off from that topic slightly I will try and answer some of the pointsraised.
If anyone has any further questions about the merger betweenthe ECA and ESC then please do post them up today and we will try to get themanswered.

Promotion
The Electrical Safety Register will be promoted extensivelyto consumers and specifiers of electrical work. We commit to spend a proportionof all fees on marketing the register so that it becomes the number onesearchable database for registered electricians. We have already sent out morethan 20 000 letters to MPs, local authorities, housing associations and othersuch leading organisations informing them about the move.
Public relations and marketing plans are already in placeand we’re confident the Electrical Safety Register will benefit NICEIC andELECSA registrants.
As a separate point, the Electrical Safety Register isn’tjust aimed at householders, NICEIC Approved Contractors and ECA registeredmembers are on there too. The electrical contracting industry is broad and the register isn’t just focussed on Domestic Installers.
Part P
NICEIC, partnering with the ECA and ELECSA has expressed itsviews on the future of Part P to the DCLG during its recent consultation and weawait to see government’s decision on the proposal. A large part of oursubmission was that more needed to be done to promote Part P to consumers andas a scheme operator we have a responsibility to do this in conjunction withgovernment.
In terms of policing, we are accredited by the UnitedKingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS) which audits us annually, and the recentSelect Committee, where NICEIC stood alongside ECA and the ESC, we welcomedmore scrutiny over Scheme Operators. We welcome this and the added transparencythis will bring.
Competent Persons /Standards
NICEIC Engineers carry out visits to our 26,000 registeredcontractors each year and inspect around 300 000 jobs and reports back are thatstandards are on the increase.
NICEIC operates a robust and rigorous qualification forregistration, accredited by UKAS. This includes, an inspection of arepresentative sample of the companies work, assessment at their premises to ensure they have documentation andrecords, employs only competent persons to carry out electrical work, hasevidence of required insurances and an, inspection of their equipment andpremises. Most importantly, it includes a requirement for regular periodicinspections and assessments of organisations and principle named individuals toensure standards are continually met.
However, in the same way that the British MedicalAssociation cannot oversee every operation performed by a surgeon, the NICEICis not in a position to test every electrical installation itself. The fact that a contractor has properly beenapproved to work to best industry standards on assessment cannot, regrettably,rule out the possibility that acontractor, or someone working for them, may be negligent in relation to aspecific electrical installation in the future.
Much like when you pass a driving test that person has aduty of care to act safely and responsible. Our annual assessments ensurestandards are maintained and that training is up to date whilst also providingthe company the opportunity to ask our skilled engineers any questions orqueries they might have.
There are several factors as to why it isn’t possible tomake registration on a Register mandatory or indeed register the individualinstead of a company. Firstly you just have to listen to our customers – or anyelectrician -to realise how tough the economic climate is. Anything thatincreases costs for contractors wouldn’t be right or ethical at this time. Secondly,there is no appetite at government level to do this and this was clear at therecent Select Committee on Part P.

I hope this helps answer some questions and if there are any more specifically relating to the new joint venture then i am happy to respond. Thanks for your time.

You mean that you will answer the questions that you wish to, and ignore the rest as "unsuitable?"

Give it a rest - there is far more intelligence outside the Scheme operators than inside them, I can assure you.

We may not be as devious, but we are far more concerned about OUR trade and OUR customers than you have ever been or will ever be in the future.

 

[Spudnik]

Rubbish - it`s just protectionist drivel.

The NICEIC and ECA are scared to death of their contractors having a choice and voting with their feet.

I know of few contractors who join the NICEIC for anything other than the branding - they detest the "cowboys with a badge" just as much as the rest of us.

Incidentally, the NICEIC posts appear to be nothing more than advertising with little substance or information of any value - i.e. spam.

If I was suspicious I would think that the NICEIC was sponsoring this forum .... ?

Well observed, (I guess the green name and member status gave it away?) and what has them sponsoring the forum got to do with it?


I dont know about members voting with their feet, or neither do you for that matter.

So, what would YOU like to see happen with this then?

 

[Guest111]

Well observed, (I guess the green name and member status gave it away?) and what has them sponsoring the forum got to do with it?


I dont know about members voting with their feet, or neither do you for that matter.

So, what would YOU like to see happen with this then?

I think that as the niceic is a forum sponsor,and that you as a member of forum admin have agreed with the comments put forward by the Niceic rep then it looks like you are paying him lip service.there it,s out now I,ve said what others were thinking.

 

[imago]

I think that as the niceic is a forum sponsor,and that you as a member of forum admin have agreed with the comments put forward by the Niceic rep then it looks like you are paying him lip service.there it,s out now I,ve said what others were thinking.

I don't like the NIC having a hand in the forum, and I'm not a fan of the ECA ESC tie up. However I don't think muddying the waters with discussion on forum sponsorship is either helpful or relevant.

The forum is part of a business, the members are part of that business' stock, and the sponsors are the customers. I frequently have to deal with all sorts as customers for my business, so I expect do most other business'. It doesn't mean that I agree with their politics, views or financial dealings. This forum's going to be no different, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

If I get to the point where I feel that this forum has crossed a line I personally feel is unacceptable I can, and will, leave and go elsewhere and so can anyone else.

 

[Guest111]

I don't like the NIC having a hand in the forum, and I'm not a fan of the ECA ESC tie up. However I don't think muddying the waters with discussion on forum sponsorship is either helpful or relevant.

The forum is part of a business, the members are part of that business' stock, and the sponsors are the customers. I frequently have to deal with all sorts as customers for my business, so I expect do most other business'. It doesn't mean that I agree with their politics, views or financial dealings. This forum's going to be no different, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

If I get to the point where I feel that this forum has crossed a line I personally feel is unacceptable I can, and will, leave and go elsewhere and so can anyone else.

the point I was trying to get over is that it would be considered less biased if moderators/admin did not involve themselves in discussions involving sponsors.

 

[Spudnik]

If you look carefully, I only press the buttons here and have no decision in who can and can't sponsor. That is dans job as he Actually owns it.

Plus the fact, he has worked reasonably hard to get the NICEIC to join, so that everyone can ask questions about schemes etc etc.

Now, with regards to the topic, (if i am allowed to contribute) as I said before, I think it is a step in the right direction.

Everyone has been moaning about not having 'one scheme', but guess what, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

With that in mind, who knows, eventually the other schemes may jump aboard.

I could of course have the wrong end of the stick!

Ps. I am actually a practicing electrician in case anyone was wondering.

PPs. And no Phil d, you havent upset me

 

[Knobhead]

Jason, this guy is a representative of the ECA, he should not need defending if his organisation were, as they claim, promoting safety.

To promote safety this campaign can only be run by a bi-partisan organisation, with a minimum qualification level to ensure the safety of the general public. But no this is a blatant self-promotional exercise and purely for gain.
ECA, IET, ESC, NAPPIT, NIC, Elecsa, et al have all proved themselves totally inept where informing the public is concerned.

There’s only one logical conclusion to this farce and that is a national register, if it needs government intervention then so be it. Unfortunately they are unlikely to involve themselves. It would mean admitting that they are responsible for the shambles that is the electrical industry is today. A shambles that ultimately is rooted in short term monetary gain.

The fact that so many feel all the schemes are letting them down is more than evident from this thread.

I really don’t know why I’m involving myself in this, I should be sat on the side lines laughing. But I can’t stand by and see safety promoted in this manner.

The employers were always the one’s tarred with the “safety at what cost” brush. It looks from here like the entire contents of the can of tar is being spread around and none of the schemes are escaping it.

 

[brman]

A quick comment on all this. I listen to absolute radio a lot during the day and I have lost count of the number of times a day some advert has told me to use checkatrade or whatever to find a tradesman. If only 10% of those adverts were replaced with promoting Part P and an official register (whatever it is called) I reckon it would make a huge difference to the public awareness.
With awareness would hopefully come pressure from the public for support when problems occur which would lead to better policing of quality via the schemes.

So, if these merger leads to better publicity for part P and electrical safety then it is definitely a good start. If it leads to more confusion from the public then it is counter productive. Time will tell.....

 

[Spoon]

I really don’t know why I’m involving myself in this, I should be sat on the side lines laughing. But I can’t stand by and see safety promoted in this manner.

I really like this, I feel the same way. I really dis-like people trying to sell me something that they say is good, in this case in the name of Safety and Competency, when you know that are lying to your face, and there is a bigger motive. Money. As I have stated earlier, I am not part of any scheme, and this merger will not really affect me, but don't like hearing BS, and it has affected my opinion of NICEIC, who have gone down a few rungs in my estimations due to this post. I know I shouldn't be shocked and that they are a company and the main guys just want more and more money, but it just rubs me up the wrong way when they say its for Safety.
I also like Professional's comment in post 114 "You mean that you will answer the questions that you wish to, and ignore the rest as "unsuitable?" There are lots of good questions on this thread. Please can you answer the "Unsuitable" ones. I'm sure you are an intelligent bloke, so you know which ones are "Unsuitable"

I also haven't heard of your "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"" Maybe someone can start a separate thread on this and we can have a poll of how many have heard of these before this thread started?

 

[Geordie Spark]

I really like this, I feel the same way. I really dis-like people trying to sell me something that they say is good, in this case in the name of Safety and Competency, when you know that are lying to your face, and there is a bigger motive. Money. As I have stated earlier, I am not part of any scheme, and this merger will not really affect me, but don't like hearing BS, and it has affected my opinion of NICEIC, who have gone down a few rungs in my estimations due to this post. I know I shouldn't be shocked and that they are a company and the main guys just want more and more money, but it just rubs me up the wrong way when they say its for Safety.
I also like Professional's comment in post 114 "You mean that you will answer the questions that you wish to, and ignore the rest as "unsuitable?" There are lots of good questions on this thread. Please can you answer the "Unsuitable" ones. I'm sure you are an intelligent bloke, so you know which ones are "Unsuitable"

I also haven't heard of your "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"" Maybe someone can start a separate thread on this and we can have a poll of how many have heard of these before this thread started?

I wouldn't be too sure about that. An intelligent bloke would have had more sense than come on here & try to blind us all with BS !!!

Where is he anyway?? I heard a rumour he's locked himself in a dark room with a bottle of Valium.

 

[amberleaf]

In view foreveryone to see on the Internet . ( PS . don’tshot the messenger )

Reaction to the Electrical Safety Register

Published: 23 November 2012

Earlier this week it was announced that The ElectricalContractors’ Association (ECA) and the Electrical Safety Council (ESC) have created the new Electrical SafetyRegister

It was also revealedthat from April 1st 2013, the NICEIC and ELECSA willbe operated by a brand new organisation called Certsure in order to increasebenefits to its customers and give the industry a stronger voice. NAPIT
In a response tothis announcement, NAPIT (itself havingrecently launched its own voluntary register, Electric-Safe) has denounced thisnew scheme as “an attempt to monopolise the representation of the UKelectrical industry.”
NAPIT chiefoperating officer, Martin Bruno, commented, “Electric-Safe has been designed tocreate a single, industry wide, consumer facing brand and register. It is freeto join and open to all electricians who have been registered as competent -under any scheme provider. The launch of the Electrical Safety Register shortlyafter - a register which is closed to six of the eight UK Competent PersonRegisters - has distorted this concept.
“ The ECA and ESC have been working for nearlytwo years to form a meaningful partnership with joint governance over theNICEIC, ELECSA and ECA Certification schemes.
“It was a movebrought about by a need to bring the industry closer together. Government,consumers and specifiers of work always said that our sector was too disparateand that we needed to be more joined-up to promote the industry and the manygreat electrical contracting companies involved in it.
“The new jointventure does this - 80% of all electro-technical Competent Persons Schemeregistrants are now on the one register and are responsible for more than 90%of all building control notifications. The Electrical Safety Register is aone-stop-shop for consumers and specifiers featuring more than 36,000electrical firms registered with the NICEIC, ECA and ELECSA certificationschemes.
“ESC have, in thepast, attempted to create one register for the promotion of contractors fromall schemes, but were unfortunately unable to secure mutual agreement amongstall parties.
“The ElectricalSafety register was therefore developed. It costs nothing to NICEIC, ELECSA andECA members to be included and is the first of many benefits that we believethis new collaboration will bring to both contractors and consumers.”
Source: Electrical-Engineering


- - - Updated - - -

New partnership brings electrical contracting together
Published: 20 November 2012

TheElectrical Contractors’ Association (ECA )and the Electrical Safety Council (ESC)have announced the creation of the Electrical-Safety-Register.

In addition, from April 1st 2013, the NICEIC and ELECSA willbe operated by a brand new organisation called Certsure for the good of itscustomers, giving the industry a stronger voice to government and majorstakeholders on relevant issues.

The partnership willbring many benefits to NICEIC and ELECSA registrants. The first is the creationof the register, which will be the definitive searchable database of NICEIC andELECSA registered contractors, as well as ECA members, promoted to hundreds ofthousands of specifiers by the trade association and the charity.
“This partnershipmarks a new beginning for the electrical contracting industry.” president ofthe ECA. “There is strength in unity and this alliance unites the keyelectrical industry players - the sector trade association, the electricalconsumer charity and the leading certification body, while providing clarity tothe consumer and a consolidated voice to government on common issues.”
Speaking at a launchevent held in Londonto herald the new partnership, the ECA’s “ Last year saw the launch of the 2021 Vision,and that presented us with a number of challenges and opportunities. We spent alot of time talking about how the industry should get together and deal withthe issues we face. So I’m delighted to be able to announce a partnership whichwe believe will have a very positive long term effect on our industry.

“Today is one of the defining and historic momentsfor the industry as the Electrical Safety Register will help strengthen theindustry and give positive support to the electrical safety agenda and assistthe ESC in taking its messages forward to the public.” - Phil Buckle, directorgeneral, ESC​

“ The ECA and the ESC have got together tocreate the Electrical Safety Register, which will be a searchable database ofquality electrical contractors and will also include ECA members. But more thanthat we’re also creating a partnership and from April next year the NICEIC andELECSA will be operated by a new joint venture company which will be owned bythe ECA and ESC. That company will be called Certsure and it will be an equallyowned and equally governed company that will take onboard the operations ofthose businesses and run them in a joined-up and focused way. We believe thatthis will provide unity for the sector and simplicity for our clients andconsumers, and we also believe it will provide benefits for the contractors.
“These actions showthat we have listened. We’ve listened to government who want industry to solveits own issues, we’ve listened to consumers who want one place to go to findcompetent electricians, and we’ve listened to our customers - we’re united intheir interests and we intend to influence the development of our industry fortheir benefit.
The ESC’s directorgeneral Phil Buckle added, “Today is one of the defining and historic momentsfor the industry as the Electrical Safety Register will help strengthen theindustry and give positive support to the electrical safety agenda and assistthe ESC in taking its messages forward to the public. The formation of theregister sees 80% of electrical contractors in one place. That’s always achallenge for the ESC in terms of how we get the public to use a properlyregistered and qualified electrician. Now, we can help the public by pointingthem to this one place, which is well promoted, well supported and captures ourethos and values in terms of qualification and ongoing assessment.
“Funding is also achallenge for the ESC in these days of economic turmoil - we tend to relyheavily on our trading organisation, Ascertiva, but now, with the joint venturepartnership, we will see over the medium term, funding to the ESC increase.This will give us more opportunity to support vulnerable people, through grantsschemes such as our Fire Safety Scheme and our Home Safety Scheme. Over thelast three years, through the support that Ascertiva have provided, we’vemanaged to give out over £600,000 to other agencies to support the public, fireand rescue services and trading standards organisations, so this represents anopportunity to do even more for the community that we will live in.
“By joining togetherwith the ECA in this partnership, the charity can make the Electrical SafetyRegister the definitive place to find an electrician and that will help ourelectrical safety agenda because we can get out there and truly help the publicmake sure they get a properly qualified electrician and not use somebody whocould leave them in an unsafe situation.
The main goal of thenew partnership is to provide benefits to the customer, as Certsure’s CEO EmmaClancy explained, “This is a proud moment for all the team that has worked onthis partnership. Everybody across all of the organisations involved has pulledtogether and has been motivated by the vision and opportunity that itrepresents.
“The spirit ofcollaboration for the good of the customer has been fantastic. It is thecustomer that was at the start of this process and it’s they who are at theheart of the partnership we are building. The good news is that they don’t haveto do anything. To enjoy the same services tomorrow as they do today, they needdo nothing so in that sense there has been no changes - we want to make this aseasy as possible.

“This is a proud moment for all the team that hasworked on this partnership. Everybody across all of the organisations involvedhas pulled together and has been motivated by the vision and opportunity thatit represents.” ​

 

[amberleaf]

“However, while itis the same in that sense, it’s also going to be a lot better. We have ideasand a programme of benefits that we will be drip-feeding to our customers overthe forthcoming months and years, as this is a stable and permanent partnershipwith long term commitment. From the outset Certsure is going to be making anumber of promises. The first one is around promotion - we believe in the workof our customers and we will promote them to their customers in a number ofways, therefore helping them to get business and prove that they’re the best inclass.
“We’re also going todeliver excellent customer service by listening and being fair in everythingthat we do. And we’re going to help them technically and raise standards acrossthe organisation with our partners and within the framework operated by the ESCand ECA - we know that is something that’s very important to our customers andsomething that they very much value. We will also be providing simple, costeffective and relevant solutions to them to help them grow their business.
“There will be anumber of benefits to being a customer of Certsure. The first one of which isinclusion on the register which we will work hard to promote in a number ofways. We’re also going to harmonise fees downwards for those that would otherwisehave ended up paying more. Lastly, certainly in the early days, we’re going tooffer a free training course in a new area so that our customers can diversifytheir businesses in the way that we’re also growing ours.
“This is just thebeginning, and perhaps with a nod to the research that was launched last year,we’re going to become the building services certification business of choice.We’re going to help our customers grow their business into new areas whateverthey may be. We’re going to be there for them to offer that help and support aswe grow Certsure accordingly.”
Source: Electrical-Engineering

 

[Spoon]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. An intelligent bloke would have had more sense than come on here & try to blind us all with BS !!!QUOTE]

I think he is a great company man, and I really mean that. I have seen it many times before. Put the company policies across to the people, even when you know they will not improve the situation. He will go far.

 

[amberleaf]

Leading electricalassociations give thumbs up to Select Committee report
Published: 2 April2012
The committee willnow be recommending that all electrical equipment sold in DIY stores carriesa health warning that it is illegal for an unregistered person to carry out mostelectrical works in the home.
“Such labelling isvital to reinforce the important message to the general public that they mustuse a registered electrician to carry out electrical works in the home,” addedBetts. “It will also reinforce a broader health and safety message thatelectrical work can potentially be extremely hazardous.

“More must be doneto alert households to the dangers of using sub-standard electricians and ofthe need to complete regular maintenance checks on electrical circuits in thehome.”
In February thisyear Emma Clancy and Steve Bratt were among a panel of leading electricalcontracting industry figures called in front of the Department of Communitiesand Local Government (CLG) Select Committee to discuss the case for retainingelectrical safety as part of the building regulations.

Source: Electrical-Engineering

 

[Des 56]

May I say that re quoting the garbage that has been published by the Niceic seems to be a promotion of that garbage rather than informative and now wonder about the motive of a poster who has provided much informative replies in the past

I also wonder whether any negative comments or difficult questions given to the Niceic engineer (who's organisation has insulted the trade and especially the intelligence of the electricians that make up the trade) I wonder whether any questions that do not sit well with their ambitions will ever be given recognition.never mind answers

If the responses by the Niceic to the questions in this thread are too embarrassing for them to acknowledge
It's possibly time to let those who want to be brainwashed into believing this is not about money and self interest,to grasp the garbage and assist in the demise of a once proud occupation

 

[Knobhead]

AL, no amount of fine words will disguise the fact this is NOT about safety, it’s yet another profit making scheme to promote paid up members of the club.

Membership of a scheme is no guarantee of an electrician’s competence.

PS the links don't work.

 

[Octopus]

AL, no amount of fine words will disguise the fact this is NOT about safety, it’s yet another profit making scheme to promote paid up members of the club.

Membership of a scheme is no guarantee of an electrician’s competence.

PS the links don't work.

If the OP wants to put our minds at rest could both the ECA and NICEIC confirm the amount of applicants, over the last 3 years, FAILED their assessments, and by FAILED, had to do complete reassessments??

And at the same time reveal how many "dodgy" electricians they investigated for poor workmanship?

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

All – thanks for the comments – clearly the merger has gonedown well with everyone!!!
Seriously though, it has been interesting to hear the viewsand despite what you think we do listen.
This thread was set up so that we can be honest and open.Yes, we are clearly going to be NICEIC biased – that is part of our job – to promotethe NICEIC.
For those who are not with NICEIC I would just say that promotingour contractors is a key part of our work. After all that is what the fees helpfund. Does your scheme provider do thesame?
In regard to our past campaigns to consumers, and informationabout our work with the building regulations and training i have added somelinks below.
MOTyour home
ASK
BuildingRegulations
Trainingapprentices
In addition, i add some facts about the new Electrical SafetyRegister.
· Certsure now represents 80% of all Part P contractors in England and Wales
· Certsure now represents 46 of the TOP 50 electrical contractors in the UK
· 92%of notified domestic electrical jobs in the UK will be done by NICEIC/ ELECSAcontractors
· 8 out of every 10 domestic electricalcontractors are registered under the Electrical Safety Register
Anyway i think this will be the last post for now from me. Ido hope you have found this thread useful in some way.
Thank you for your views and comments – even the criticalones!

 

[Engineer54]

I see that NONE of the critical comments have been addressed or commented on once again!! Cherry picking of points to reply to, only reinforces the lack of, or no confidence in your company!!

Instead of spurting out all the above pointless piffal, how about addressing the comments that have been made towards the Safety stance of registering under qualified, under experienced, 17 Day/Electrical Trainee onto your DI register? Along with the many other questions that have been asked by many here and to date, blatantly ignored...


EDIT...
Haha.... Disappeared as soon as my post was read!!

 

[Spoon]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

 

[AP Electrical]

By the way when you said national advertising campaign I thought you ment bill boards and tv adverts, not pages on the nic website.... Or am I just looking at the wrong bit????




im now going to launch a national advertising campaign ( update my website )

 

[Engineer54]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

No, i didn't expect much from this guy at all. Just wanted to make it known to him, that he's not fooling anyone!! lol!!

 

[Octopus]

All – thanks for the comments – clearly the merger has gonedown well with everyone!!!
Seriously though, it has been interesting to hear the viewsand despite what you think we do listen.
In regard to our past campaigns to consumers, and informationabout our work with the building regulations and training i have added somelinks below.
· Certsure now represents 80% of all Part P contractors in England and Wales
· Certsure now represents 46 of the TOP 50 electrical contractors in the UK
· 92%of notified domestic electrical jobs in the UK will be done by NICEIC/ ELECSAcontractors
· 8 out of every 10 domestic electricalcontractors are registered under the Electrical Safety Register

92% of the job which were actually notified then!

How many aren't notified??

Are the number of notifications rising, declining or staying the same?

 

[Knobhead]

Leading electricalassociations give thumbs up to Select Committee report
Published: 2 April2012
The committee willnow be recommending that all electrical equipment sold in DIY stores carriesa health warning that it is illegal for an unregistered person to carry out mostelectrical works in the home.
“Such labelling isvital to reinforce the important message to the general public that they mustuse a registered electrician to carry out electrical works in the home,” addedBetts. “It will also reinforce a broader health and safety message thatelectrical work can potentially be extremely hazardous.

“More must be doneto alert households to the dangers of using sub-standard electricians and ofthe need to complete regular maintenance checks on electrical circuits in thehome.”
In February thisyear Emma Clancy and Steve Bratt were among a panel of leading electricalcontracting industry figures called in front of the Department of Communitiesand Local Government (CLG) Select Committee to discuss the case for retainingelectrical safety as part of the building regulations.

Source: Electrical-Engineering

For this to have even the slightest credence an independent national register is required.
The electrical associations are bound to give the thumbs up, it’s legalised robbery!

 

[topcat]

I check the site on friday it will not search for any one out side london on my computer and if you can get it to work why are all the nic contractors listed before elecsa ones and why are they not listed in distance from the post code put in my post code gave me people 20 miles away but not ones 1 mile away if its a data base these are easy things to fix before you go live.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

Aye .... here in Geordieland we have a name for blokes like this and it "sounds" like banker.

 

[Geordie Spark]

No, i didn't expect much from this guy at all. Just wanted to make it known to him, that he's not fooling anyone!! lol!!

I heard he has been previously employed as a Used Car Salesman.

 

[amberleaf]

Sorry. I’ve not be reading this post till this morning .

Isit coming to unregistered electricians without N***** approval . that we will be sub-standard-electricians’ in the near future . ?????????
forall electricians . is it comingto ?? Them 89% & Us , 11%

Does the sunshine out there van’s . Rich get richer & the poor get madeunemployed . !!

There should be only , one-register for all

 

[GNES]

I think its great that the NICEIC will reduce their fee down to be more in line with ELECSA, a difference of around £9.00. I think it would be even better if they could HALF the fees or bring them more in line with Gas Safe Renewal.RENEWAL REGISTRATION FEES
Renewal registration fees from 1 April 2012 are as follows:

Non-web renewal (includes one engineer)	£175.00
Web renewal (includes one engineer)	£155.00
Additional engineer	£53.00 per engineer

All fees are excluding VAT, thus helping all electricians that want to be registered and stay registered but struggle with yearly fees and update courses. Also before the register becomes live maybe some sort of industry standard could be introduced where any company offering tradesmen sourcing must make it clear that all people sourcing electrical quotes must check that the electrical companies on their websites are listed on the electrical safety register before inviting them or asking them to quote.

 

[Spudnik]

I check the site on friday it will not search for any one out side london on my computer and if you can get it to work why are all the nic contractors listed before elecsa ones and why are they not listed in distance from the post code put in my post code gave me people 20 miles away but not ones 1 mile away if its a data base these are easy things to fix before you go live.

I have just tried my postcode and i was top of the list and im with Elecsa?

 

[amberleaf]

See whatit means to be a forum member can do Jason . Your pulling string !!!! here

 

[Knobhead]

Sorry. I’ve not be reading this post till this morning .

Isit coming to unregistered electricians without N***** approval . that we will be sub-standard-electricians’ in the near future . ?????????
forall electricians . is it comingto ?? Them 89% & Us , 11%

Does the sunshine out there van’s . Rich get richer & the poor get madeunemployed . !!

There should be only , one-register for all

See whatit means to be a forum member can do Jason . Your pulling string !!!! here

Your going to have to translate that for me AL. I've not drunk enough yet.

 

[amberleaf]

Tony . translated . Etc

Jason has a sense of Humor . believe it on not .

From Jason post :
Ihave just tried my postcode and I was top of the list and am with Elecsa ?

See what it means to be a forum-member can do Jason . Your pulling strings !!! here . This was a joke

 

[professional]

All – thanks for the comments – clearly the merger has gonedown well with everyone!!!
Seriously though, it has been interesting to hear the viewsand despite what you think we do listen.
This thread was set up so that we can be honest and open.Yes, we are clearly going to be NICEIC biased – that is part of our job – to promotethe NICEIC.
For those who are not with NICEIC I would just say that promotingour contractors is a key part of our work. After all that is what the fees helpfund. Does your scheme provider do thesame?
In regard to our past campaigns to consumers, and informationabout our work with the building regulations and training i have added somelinks below.
MOTyour home
ASK
BuildingRegulations
Trainingapprentices
In addition, i add some facts about the new Electrical SafetyRegister.
· Certsure now represents 80% of all Part P contractors in England and Wales
· Certsure now represents 46 of the TOP 50 electrical contractors in the UK
· 92%of notified domestic electrical jobs in the UK will be done by NICEIC/ ELECSAcontractors
· 8 out of every 10 domestic electricalcontractors are registered under the Electrical Safety Register
Anyway i think this will be the last post for now from me. Ido hope you have found this thread useful in some way.
Thank you for your views and comments – even the criticalones!

The ability to answer pertinent questions honestly and succinctly would be a valuable addition to your skill set - perhaps your training school run`s a course - but then again, there may be little demand ....

 

[SAILOR48]

It really doesn’t matter all the time checker trade etc, are spending thousands advertising on TV every day.
This lot with all the years they have had to market, and still the public hardly know who they are. NICEIC is such a catchy name for a business for a start.
Just to prove a point put search criteria in Google and see how far up the list any of these scammers come.
If I put electricians in my area, I am 14 places higher than any of them.
Lord Sugar would fire the lot of them.

 

[ezzzekiel]

1. reduce membership fees to something realistic (in line with gassafe)
2. all electricians to become a member at the above realistic price providing they are carrying out private works
3. no more Electrical Trainee only suitably qualified elctricians may join (proof of quals means a single onsite assesment when first joining as further assesments are pointless unless random spot checks.
4. larger advertising campaign to get the message across
5. all scheme providers can stay but operate under a single safety badge (electric safe niceic, electric safe napit, electric safe elecsa)

HOW DIFFICULT IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!

 

[AP Electrical]

I feel this thread was a complete waste of time, niceic set it up to answer questions and then leave after a few posts....... I'm struggling to see how this puts you in a good light to the contractors you depend upon for your very existence alot of who frequent this forum.