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EF's referendum on the EU.
Discuss EF's referendum on the EU. in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
OP
Dcf
The Germans have been cute to be fair.
they held on to the top end engineering while we and others gave it all away to other countries because we were too far up the financial sectors arse to be bothers with what we do best .i put in 20 length of medium duty tray last week and it was at least half the thickness it would have been even 15 years ago.stuff that used to be made in the uk to a decent spec.it will come full circle but it's gonna take time.
The Germans as Murdoch says will not bail out the rest forever that's for sure.
OP
MDJ
If scotland leaves the UK, (I hope they do not Personally, would be Bad IMO) will they want to be part of the EU?
OP
MDJ
will be interesting IMO, No Uk and no EU? I am more concerned about the break up of the UK union than the EU, I think the scots need to worry about our breakup more than leaving europe, and if they do and then we leave europe too then we will be a even smaller country alone, will be bad IMO, but there you are, wheres my Beer 
OP
Tesla1980
I'm all for staying In M8, I'm opposed to whatever the Tory's want
The torries want out of europe
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...ALKhL0-kkvkI45A&bvm=bv.41248874,d.d2k&cad=rja
OP
MDJ
they put us in it in the first place too lol
- Reaction score
- 1,556
OP
shagbite
i don't think scotland will break up the union. you wouldn't think it, if you listened to the SNP, but i believe the majority of scottish are in favour of a united kingdom.
OP
MDJ
Well I hope so M8, we have fun by taking the pee out of each other but it would be a bad day for all concerned IMO if the union broke up, and then if england decided to leave the EU as well, who turned out the lights????
- Reaction score
- 10,221
Yep! The scots will be ejected from the EU but this is all part of the EU plan because the only way they will accept them back is as a full commited EU member so you independance vote may lose your currency and put you in financial melt down ... but the scottish parliment are stupidly ignorant of this, im not scottish myself but i can see an eventual future where we exit the EU and Scotland come crying back, im dumbfounded the fact they want independence as it they would loose the generous handouts from England and Per capitor head the scots get more than the English from the goverment, also they wont have claim to any Gas or Oil fields as this has all been built and drilled using UK tax payers money so will remain as such..... Oh wait i know why cos the new goverment would see there personal salaries rocket all at the Scottish tax payers expense.
- Reaction score
- 1,556
OP
Guest55
i'm out.
OP
Octopus
Of the Eu or the Thread???
- Reaction score
- 2,115
Just a little comment on the possibilty of Scotland leaving the UK - and no, i don't really know all the in's and out's of it. I don't want them to leave personally, don't see the point in it.
However, if they do leave they should leave completley - proper boarder erected, where its a pain in the arse for people to travel across then that would soon make them realise they'd made a mistake. They can say bye bye to the pound aswell and get there own currency.
From what i gather, and could be completley wrong - because i haven't really followed it. They want out of the UK but to still keep certain parts (which would be benefitial to them?) am i correct in saying all this or not?
They're either in or out, theres nowhere in between.
However, if they do leave they should leave completley - proper boarder erected, where its a pain in the arse for people to travel across then that would soon make them realise they'd made a mistake. They can say bye bye to the pound aswell and get there own currency.
From what i gather, and could be completley wrong - because i haven't really followed it. They want out of the UK but to still keep certain parts (which would be benefitial to them?) am i correct in saying all this or not?
They're either in or out, theres nowhere in between.
OP
Octopus
Alec Salmon says he wants to remain in the EU so as a new member they would HAVE TO adopt the highly successful Euro!
OP
shagbite
ironically, that's what our politicians are saying, with regards to scottish independance - in or out.
but ask them about the EU? well, that's altogether different in their eyes.
OP
shagbite
come on then grant......unionist or nationalist?
The majority of the UK voters are pro exiting,mainly because the majority of the UK is England land mass and population
The balance of yea and nea in the other countries is much much less emphatic because of historical attitudes
England has never been subjugated to the rule of others and it is evident when talk of monetary union or EU lawmaking,it is the one subject that has always fanned the flames of English nationalism
It amazes me that on the one hand the majority UK population screams about going it alone, then on the other hand,they have the complete opposite arguments to an independant Scotland trying to excersise exactly the same desire only at UK level
The Scotland seperation argument is for Scotland alone to decide,it should not be used as some sort of threat when mentioning the UK and its future with the EU
They will no doubt have their negotiations with the EU, talk about the constitutional position of a seperate Scotland within the EU is scaremongering only
The problem with wanting out of the EU is that one day that terrible situation may actually become a reality, and that reality will be a lot more sobering to the seperetists than they care to imagine
Uk plc long ago was dethroned from being a meaningful world player,mainly because of its small economy and reducing influence because its military strength could not be sustained at historical levels
With the loss of revenue from the empire,something had to change,reality had to be accepted
The UK as a world power economically and militarily was declining,it was becoming division 2
The only viable future was as part of a Europe.which when combined, was capable of competing with the worlds big boys
The EU is a relatively new concept,it has had spectacular mis mangement,but it is all that is of any hope for us in the big wide world
It could be changed and run with much better rules, represetation, and efficiecy,but the typical English politician has never truly joined the organisation and tried to lead it to better times,rather always been the reluctant onlooker
It has reluctantly gone along with its membership, toeing the line when it feels like it,then being a positive gamebreaker when its nationalistic attitudes became the decision maker, rather than deciding what was or is best for the EU as an organisation
On the one hand the UK has done its best to hinder European best interests whilst playing havoc with the decision making,then on the other hand saying because the EU decision making is poor we want out, British politicians want to be all things to all men and act accordingly
The leaders of the main parties do not have the bottle to come out and tell you the truth,they may say publically for you to hear what you want,that they want out,but away from the public they would be doing their best to make sure that progress towards anything resembling withdrawel will never happen,because they don't want it to happen
They know themselves that there is no other way,there is the EU way or there is the bannana republic route
England can leave the EU but Wales N Ireland and Scotland may not wish to assist in the suicide of the entity and would very soon want to be where common sense tells them that they should be, In the EU,playing a full part,inflencing decisions and feeling secure, being part of a much stronger wealthier and secure organisation
The EU needed the UK to be a genuine player,but instead it got a spoilt brat,a country not wanting to share its toys, whilst still wanting to play with the other countrys toys
Immigration is often proclaimed as that terrible EU policy that has burdened Britain
Britain burdened "itself" with immigration,Germany and France did not have the problems that we had here because they had sense to apply policy in a sane manner
Long before the EU was the body it is today,immigration to Britain was an uncontrolled shambles,accepting commonwealth countrys numbers and cast offs because we still had this delusion of Empire
That delusion, to a certain extent, still remains with English people and it is difficult for them to shake off,because it is in the culture of the peoples,but change it needs to and that change has to be well before exiting the EU is contemplated
I dread to think about the generations coming after us if we were foolish enough to remove their security and economic well being and all for the sake of English nationalism
The balance of yea and nea in the other countries is much much less emphatic because of historical attitudes
England has never been subjugated to the rule of others and it is evident when talk of monetary union or EU lawmaking,it is the one subject that has always fanned the flames of English nationalism
It amazes me that on the one hand the majority UK population screams about going it alone, then on the other hand,they have the complete opposite arguments to an independant Scotland trying to excersise exactly the same desire only at UK level
The Scotland seperation argument is for Scotland alone to decide,it should not be used as some sort of threat when mentioning the UK and its future with the EU
They will no doubt have their negotiations with the EU, talk about the constitutional position of a seperate Scotland within the EU is scaremongering only
The problem with wanting out of the EU is that one day that terrible situation may actually become a reality, and that reality will be a lot more sobering to the seperetists than they care to imagine
Uk plc long ago was dethroned from being a meaningful world player,mainly because of its small economy and reducing influence because its military strength could not be sustained at historical levels
With the loss of revenue from the empire,something had to change,reality had to be accepted
The UK as a world power economically and militarily was declining,it was becoming division 2
The only viable future was as part of a Europe.which when combined, was capable of competing with the worlds big boys
The EU is a relatively new concept,it has had spectacular mis mangement,but it is all that is of any hope for us in the big wide world
It could be changed and run with much better rules, represetation, and efficiecy,but the typical English politician has never truly joined the organisation and tried to lead it to better times,rather always been the reluctant onlooker
It has reluctantly gone along with its membership, toeing the line when it feels like it,then being a positive gamebreaker when its nationalistic attitudes became the decision maker, rather than deciding what was or is best for the EU as an organisation
On the one hand the UK has done its best to hinder European best interests whilst playing havoc with the decision making,then on the other hand saying because the EU decision making is poor we want out, British politicians want to be all things to all men and act accordingly
The leaders of the main parties do not have the bottle to come out and tell you the truth,they may say publically for you to hear what you want,that they want out,but away from the public they would be doing their best to make sure that progress towards anything resembling withdrawel will never happen,because they don't want it to happen
They know themselves that there is no other way,there is the EU way or there is the bannana republic route
England can leave the EU but Wales N Ireland and Scotland may not wish to assist in the suicide of the entity and would very soon want to be where common sense tells them that they should be, In the EU,playing a full part,inflencing decisions and feeling secure, being part of a much stronger wealthier and secure organisation
The EU needed the UK to be a genuine player,but instead it got a spoilt brat,a country not wanting to share its toys, whilst still wanting to play with the other countrys toys
Immigration is often proclaimed as that terrible EU policy that has burdened Britain
Britain burdened "itself" with immigration,Germany and France did not have the problems that we had here because they had sense to apply policy in a sane manner
Long before the EU was the body it is today,immigration to Britain was an uncontrolled shambles,accepting commonwealth countrys numbers and cast offs because we still had this delusion of Empire
That delusion, to a certain extent, still remains with English people and it is difficult for them to shake off,because it is in the culture of the peoples,but change it needs to and that change has to be well before exiting the EU is contemplated
I dread to think about the generations coming after us if we were foolish enough to remove their security and economic well being and all for the sake of English nationalism
OP
Dcf
if my memory serves me correctly did diamond dave not use the scottish independence thing as a tactic to deflect from the real issue which was in or out of europe?It backfired on him badly cos it was an issue that very few scots apart from fervent nationalists really thought about.now we all are thinking could we really be better off on our own cos like it or not my english brothers north sea oil has kept the country afloat for the last 40 years anyway.
i personally think that all the countries of the union are too closely integrated for a split.
as an example there is a big project replacing 275kv lines from Denny in the Central belt to Beauly north of inverness with 400kv equipment lines etc.
Why? to bring on stream all the windfarms etc etc up north to transmit to the national grid down south cos in scotland we generate more than we use thats for sure.SSE are scottish and southern energy how do you split that up??what currency would we charge you in bawbees and groats if we are not allowed to use the pound??? who knows
Wee eck would have a rare old time giving us everything for free until the cash ran out.then you would solve englands unemployment at a stroke by rebuilding hadrians wall to keep us out.we would of course have plenty black gold while england starts a second falklands war with argentina over the oil that is probably there... or not., using all the scots in the armed forces as mercenaries ready to start a coup in an african adventure with mark thatcher.
Ecosse will probably descend into chaos and anarchy...... and probably end up like norway.
The british government has wanted rid of northern ireland for years why not start with independence there?because half the population thinks it is british and the other half thinks its irish and apart from using it as a live training ground in counter terrorism practice it has no benefit to them really at all economically. the fallout from that one would be catastrophic, if recent events over flying a flag would seem to be.cant see the break up of the union myself it just has not been thought through by our esteemed "leaders"
i personally think that all the countries of the union are too closely integrated for a split.
as an example there is a big project replacing 275kv lines from Denny in the Central belt to Beauly north of inverness with 400kv equipment lines etc.
Why? to bring on stream all the windfarms etc etc up north to transmit to the national grid down south cos in scotland we generate more than we use thats for sure.SSE are scottish and southern energy how do you split that up??what currency would we charge you in bawbees and groats if we are not allowed to use the pound??? who knows
Wee eck would have a rare old time giving us everything for free until the cash ran out.then you would solve englands unemployment at a stroke by rebuilding hadrians wall to keep us out.we would of course have plenty black gold while england starts a second falklands war with argentina over the oil that is probably there... or not., using all the scots in the armed forces as mercenaries ready to start a coup in an african adventure with mark thatcher.
Ecosse will probably descend into chaos and anarchy...... and probably end up like norway.
The british government has wanted rid of northern ireland for years why not start with independence there?because half the population thinks it is british and the other half thinks its irish and apart from using it as a live training ground in counter terrorism practice it has no benefit to them really at all economically. the fallout from that one would be catastrophic, if recent events over flying a flag would seem to be.cant see the break up of the union myself it just has not been thought through by our esteemed "leaders"
- Reaction score
- 10,221
Well worded but i can only agree in part Des, my comments re' Scotland were based on EU intervention on the possible matter and officially confirming that Scotland wouldn't remain in the EU if they got their independence, they also said they would have to rejoin with a new deal (i.e. become a full member, euro and powers handed over), If this was to happen i personally see Scotland been sleepwalking into the next Greece or Italy they believe they are voting for Independence where in fact they could be commiting all there new found powers over to the EU, the case may be they dont rejoin and successfully become an independant country but they will have to go through some very hard initial times before this occurs.
Yes its for scottish people to decide and not me and i fully agree with that but until that vote is done they are still part of the UK 's political system and therefore im quite within my rights to give comment and have concerns what happens to them. Personally i would like them to stay but comparing Scotland relationship with the rest of the UK to that of our relationship and opinions on the EU is a poor comparitive just because the IN/OUT option is the same nothing else is remotely similar.
You also are in a mind that we would become a preverbial fish out of water and struggle ... well its the case that 46billion is imported from the EU more than exported and do you really think all these big companies within the EU are going to stop selling us their products because we exit NO! .. an exit would see our trading restrictions removed with the rest of the world, at present the EU is only 12% of the world market and its falling every year, its kinda of a no brainer that gaining full access to the rest of the worlds markets can only benefit us.
The attitude we can't survive on our own is very pessimistic we will still trade with the EU as we did before we joined its not in their interest to stop trading as it will just add to the domino effect that is already crippling the Euro,Yes im british and proud but this in no way gives me a blinkered view. If we were to exit there will be an adjustent period some big companies will go but also some will thrive and many new companies will join UK... we will no longer have financial ties to the EU and become a very good investment option for many countries it will also see the pound strengthen as it will no longer be heamouraging into the EU money pit.
Lastly and sadly i must 100% agree with you in that the govement is using careful wording and tactics to make us think we are going to get a choice but while Cam' at the helm we will never get a true IN / OUT vote... towns and jobs around us have been affected badly by mass EU immigration its stretching local housing and resources to the limit and we can expect a 10fold increase next year on it, now im not a racist in any context of the word but the open borders policies in modern times cant be compared to the past britain is buckling and the man in charge is not really in charge but the Euro meddlers making the laws to let this happen unrestricted
When it effect your family, your freinds jobs etc directly just because of a law born in brussels to try ease the burden on their own problems then ill see if you opinion is the same.
Ps not written in a have a go context just debating
Yes its for scottish people to decide and not me and i fully agree with that but until that vote is done they are still part of the UK 's political system and therefore im quite within my rights to give comment and have concerns what happens to them. Personally i would like them to stay but comparing Scotland relationship with the rest of the UK to that of our relationship and opinions on the EU is a poor comparitive just because the IN/OUT option is the same nothing else is remotely similar.
You also are in a mind that we would become a preverbial fish out of water and struggle ... well its the case that 46billion is imported from the EU more than exported and do you really think all these big companies within the EU are going to stop selling us their products because we exit NO! .. an exit would see our trading restrictions removed with the rest of the world, at present the EU is only 12% of the world market and its falling every year, its kinda of a no brainer that gaining full access to the rest of the worlds markets can only benefit us.
The attitude we can't survive on our own is very pessimistic we will still trade with the EU as we did before we joined its not in their interest to stop trading as it will just add to the domino effect that is already crippling the Euro,Yes im british and proud but this in no way gives me a blinkered view. If we were to exit there will be an adjustent period some big companies will go but also some will thrive and many new companies will join UK... we will no longer have financial ties to the EU and become a very good investment option for many countries it will also see the pound strengthen as it will no longer be heamouraging into the EU money pit.
Lastly and sadly i must 100% agree with you in that the govement is using careful wording and tactics to make us think we are going to get a choice but while Cam' at the helm we will never get a true IN / OUT vote... towns and jobs around us have been affected badly by mass EU immigration its stretching local housing and resources to the limit and we can expect a 10fold increase next year on it, now im not a racist in any context of the word but the open borders policies in modern times cant be compared to the past britain is buckling and the man in charge is not really in charge but the Euro meddlers making the laws to let this happen unrestricted
When it effect your family, your freinds jobs etc directly just because of a law born in brussels to try ease the burden on their own problems then ill see if you opinion is the same.
Ps not written in a have a go context just debating
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The imposition of one European currency on a number of disparate economic zones has been a monumental failure.
How many more people in Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece etc must be made unemployed before people wake up?
How much more social unrest must occur before European Politicians finally smell the faeces?
European economies differ widely, necessitating different interest rates and currencies.
Historically weaker European economies have devalued their currencies in times of economic hardship to stimulate demand.
Q/ What happens when everyone is enforced to listen to the Organ grinder and not the monkey?
A/ Mass unemployment and social unrest as weaker economies get purged.
Norway sits on the edge of the EU and its economy has faired well under its own autonomy.
The sooner we take the power back, the better.
Sorry but I don't want this forum to get shut down by the plod for anti "owner/euro" sentiment, so I decided to remove my post...
Reply to EF's referendum on the EU. in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
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