EICR Nightmare and Advise

[Josh_ahoy]

All - Would appreciate some advise or professional help as I'm facing a £4.5K bill following an EICR which seems to highlight issues that passed just last year's EICR.

First EICR done in March 2021 - Passed with only C3 observations.

Second EICR done - just on advise online before change of tenancy - Failed with multiple C2. The tenancts are due in by end of Month and we are facing a hefty bill. Focus of course is to make it safe for tenants but don't want to be ripped off hence would appreciate some advise or professional help.

1 1.3 Consumer meter tails exposed single insulated inner cores. C2 Meter [March 2021 none highlighted]



2 . No labels on Earthing Conductor and Main Earthing Terminal. C3 MET

3 4.1 Consumer unit mounted at a height which prevents ease of access for user. C3 Entrance [March 2021 No observation see pic under next point[]

4 4.5 IP rating of consumer unit not to BS 7671:2018+A2:2022. Back and top of Consumer unit has an unused opening exceeding IP2X. C2 Consumer unit [March 2021 reading marked as pass. New Consumer Board was installed 2012/13 when we upgraded the kitchen]


5 4.6 Consumer unit in a domestic household premises is not metal, located in the sole means of escape for a dwelling area. C2 Entrance [March 2021 no issue highlighted]



6 4.7 Consumer unit has a crack in the protective device access flap. C2 Consumer unit [March 2021 this was a C3]


7 4.17 No presence of diagram, charts at or near equipment. C3 Consumer unit

8 6.3 Low values of insulation resistance measured 250V DC test voltage (2.28M/ohm). Degraded di-isoctyl phthalate occurying in all checked sockets (except kitchen circuit) wires and sockets throughout the house. C2 Several locations [March 2021 reading >200MOHM]


9 6.14Mains smoke/heat alarms not installed. Battery alarms poor condition. Advise install minimum 10 years Mains with battery back-up smoke/heat alarms. C3 Several locations [March 2021 not highighted]


Thanks!!!
J

 

[SJD]

Probably the biggest expense would be rewiring the sockets. Yet the insulation resistance of 2.28M is above the minimum, and so perhaps not strictly necessary at this time. If it is oozing out of any socket faceplates (it sometimes is), they can be replaced in the meantime.

A few other things appear a bit strict or not even relevant. E.g. presence of smoke alarms is outside of the scope of an EICR, though you should of course have them.

 

[Josh_ahoy]

Probably the biggest expense would be rewiring the sockets. Yet the insulation resistance of 2.28M is above the minimum, and so perhaps not strictly necessary at this time. If it is oozing out of any socket faceplates (it sometimes is), they can be replaced in the meantime.

A few other things appear a bit strict or not even relevant. E.g. presence of smoke alarms is outside of the scope of an EICR, though you should of course have them.

Thanks SJD for the advise. Does that mean I can challenge the C2 on 2.28M?

The leaky plasticizer is only at 2 out of 10 sockets perhaps where direct sunlight has been hitting them - both are near windows.

Thanks.

 

[James]

I doubt that the inspector will change his/her outcome of the report.

you can ask but if it were me, I would say something along the lines of the installation is clearly deteriorating and may well deteriorate to the point that it becomes dangerous well before it is next inspected. Therefore it is not suitable for continuing use.

it sounds like a detailed report that someone has spent some time inspecting.
some of the items listed are a little harsh but changing a couple of them is not going to change the overall outcome.

I would get a couple of other quotes for the remedial work and see if the price comes down.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

1. C2 £45 to terminate so no basic insulation showing.
4. C2 £45 to cover holes.
5. I would put this as a C3
6. C2. Replacement cover (If possible) £70
8. IR results are above 2, so I wouldn't be coding.
It's the green goo that could be the costly part. I would C2 it if there was severe green goo which was either damaging accessories or degrading the cable. Even though 2.28Mohms is acceptable, mixed with green goo it may indicate a breakdown of the insulation of the cables meaning you may need a rewire. I would get two further electricians in to get 2 more quotes.

9. Smoke alarms are not a part of an EICR. I would still make the landlord aware that they legally need them though.

 

[Josh_ahoy]

1. C2 £45 to terminate so no basic insulation showing.
4. C2 £45 to cover holes.
5. I would put this as a C3
6. C2. Replacement cover (If possible) £70
8. IR results are above 2, so I wouldn't be coding.
It's the green goo that could be the costly part. I would C2 it if there was severe green goo which was either damaging accessories or degrading the cable. Even though 2.28Mohms is acceptable, mixed with green goo it may indicate a breakdown of the insulation of the cables meaning you may need a rewire. I would get two further electricians in to get 2 more quotes.

9. Smoke alarms are not a part of an EICR. I would still make the landlord aware that they legally need them though.

Thanks @HappyHippyDad. I wish you were closer to Reading to do this for us .

Only two sockets are showing green goo outside and of which only one was looking like coming out from the switch after the inspection was completed. Picture of the main culprit socket below:

 

[James]

In my opinion, the inspector was correct in his c2 assessment of the socket circuit.

 

[pc1966]

Only two sockets are showing green goo outside and of which only one was looking like coming out from the switch after the inspection was completed. Picture of the main culprit socket below:

That is not a good sign.

As above, you might argue over some of the codes but there is no doubt that cable is well beyond its working life. Also it is worth pointing out that this problem with the type of PVC plasticiser causing the degradation of insulation and "green goo" was limited to a period of a few years in the late 60s/early 70s so that wiring is 50+ years old now.

Get a couple of quotes for the remedial work.

The earlier EICR you had clearly did not check in so much detail. Not the news you might want to hear, but sadly just how it is.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The meter tails is a 5 minute fix for an electrician , literally just need re-terminating

The hole in the top of the consumer unit is pressed up fairly tight to the ceiling so no real risk of someone shoving their fingers in. You can easily just fill with hole some white mastic bathroom sealant . Likewise the cracked cover isn't really be a C2 as its just the flappy cover, I come across many many consumer units where the plastic flappy cover has been snapped off altogether. I just recommend they find a new cover on Ebay.

Low IR is FI not a C2

Geen Goo is a problem but sometimes the offending cable can be cleaned with a wet wipe and the face plate changed then it becomes a more detailed FI where you want to inspect all the cables and a possible partial re-wire req latter on

 

[timhoward]

Mostly trivial stuff, the big ones are low IR and green goo.
From what I can see of consumer unit not all the wiring is 1960's at least.

The wiring for the sockets is now seriously old - and when I see that the two things that matter are the IR reading and presence of green goo. It tends to be 1960's wiring that exhibits this. As said above once you see green goo then it's generally game over the the related wiring. I'd agree that a partial rewire is now required, I'm afraid.

Low IR is FI not a C2

Respectfully disagree there Dusty. I used to think that too but I've been told by a few old-hands that FI is for where we can't establish a result, not for where we don't know why we are getting a result.

 

[timhoward]

Geen Goo is a problem but sometimes the offending cable can be cleaned with a wet wipe and the face plate changed then it becomes a more detailed FI where you want to inspect all the cables and a possible partial re-wire req latter on

If an 100% check of accessories reveals it is indeed only one or two locations affected then I could imagine cleaning it up and recommending re-inspection in a year. The IR is already getting fairly close to the line on this one though.

 

[littlespark]

The meter tails are at the meter. Can only be worked on by meter operator engineer, as it means pulling the fuse/ cutting the seal

The holes in the consumer unit are up against the ceiling… jam a bit of plastic inbetween to cover.

Should get a replacement cover off eBay… at least it’s still got a cover!

The green goo is the biggest issue, but the low readings may be linked to that. If the stained sockets were changed, the reading might rise… but the goo would likely start oozing into the new ones…..



This is a problem everywhere when one EICR picks up on thing that another didn’t.
Was it the same company that did both reports?
If not, was there a big difference in price/ time doing the testing?

 

[Dustydazzler]

If an 100% check of accessories reveals it is indeed only one or two locations affected then I could imagine cleaning it up and recommending re-inspection in a year. The IR is already getting fairly close to the line on this one though.

I come across Green-goo a lot at the housing estates near me , I do my best to clean the offending goo off and sometimes replace a little bit of cable where possible and a new face plate. I have been back to some of these jobs 12-18 months latter and it seems to have done the trick.
With the cost of cable now and labour even a partial re-wire can cost £1000s and to many people its just not an option at the moment with the cost of living crisis.

 

[timhoward]

With the cost of cable now and labour even a partial re-wire can cost £1000s and to many people its just not an option at the moment with the cost of living crisis

I completely understand that and agree. I've in fact just advised someone myself that wiring of a very similar age is safe even though modernisation is long overdue. In my case the IR was 30M and there was no green goo detected though.

This one above looks like a dual-RCD board with at least two socket circuits. It says the kitchen was upgraded along with new CU so maybe that is a newer circuit and is fine. (I can see a new-colours RFC). It might be the problem is limited to remainder of downstairs rooms, or just upstairs. It might be that a couple of radials in trunking would provide a temporary solution.

Lots of unknowns, and maybe's! The next step is finding out the scale of the problem. Confirming which circuits have the low IR and checking 100% of accessories on them.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Thanks @HappyHippyDad. I wish you were closer to Reading to do this for us .

Only two sockets are showing green goo outside and of which only one was looking like coming out from the switch after the inspection was completed. Picture of the main culprit socket below:

View attachment 100451

View attachment 100452

View attachment 100453

View attachment 100454

That doesn't look great Josh.
As the others have said it's looking like a rewire.
You have quite bad green goo, IR results close to a failure mark and damaged accessories. As @pc1966 said that cable is 50+ years old. It's probably time for a rewire I'm afraid. It might be worth thinking about getting some of the other circuits rewired at the same time if they are of a similar age, or at least discuss it with the electrician.

As for the first EICR you had done. It seems possible/likely that they did not do a terribly good job.

 

[loz2754]

As for the C2 given for the plastic consumer unit being located in the sole means of escape, BPG4 would suggest this would be C2 only if there were signs of degradation in the consumer unit. For example, discolouration of MCBs, badly fitted busbars etc.

Having said that, there is an obvious benefit to keeping up with current regulations that are designed to improve safety.

 

[timhoward]

It might be worth thinking about getting all the other circuits rewired at the same time if they are of a similar age, or at least discuss it with the electrician.

To be fair I can see at least 3 circuits in new colours, so I'm expecting this to be a partial rewire.

What I would say is that getting this done while unoccupied will save big bucks.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

To be fair I can see at least 3 circuits in new colours, so I'm expecting this to be a partial rewire.

What I would say is that getting this done while unoccupied will save big bucks.

Haha.. I just saw this and edited my post. Not quickly enough though

 

[DefyG]

First EICR done in March 2021 - Passed with only C3 observations

If it was satisfactory in Mar 2021 you should not need another in 2022, whether change of tenancy or not!
However looking at some of the photos etc I wonder on the validity of the March EICR

 

[Josh_ahoy]

The meter tails are at the meter. Can only be worked on by meter operator engineer, as it means pulling the fuse/ cutting the seal

The holes in the consumer unit are up against the ceiling… jam a bit of plastic inbetween to cover.

Should get a replacement cover off eBay… at least it’s still got a cover!

The green goo is the biggest issue, but the low readings may be linked to that. If the stained sockets were changed, the reading might rise… but the goo would likely start oozing into the new ones…..



This is a problem everywhere when one EICR picks up on thing that another didn’t.
Was it the same company that did both reports?
If not, was there a big difference in price/ time doing the testing?

Different company.