Electrical contractor bypassed my meter ?

[homeworker]

Looking for some advice before deciding how to proceed.

A number of years ago I had an extension built with all the electrics supplied by a second CU fitted in the garage. I recently had cause to look closely at the wiring (after a particularly lengthy MeterPlus reading) and have determined that the second consumer unit is connected to the wrong side of my meter.

Now I can see no reason nfor the contractor to do this intentionally so i am trying to establish why this should have happened, genuine mistake ? common practice ?.

Having had the extension professionally project managed and as far as I can remember all signed off (this resposibility I assumed was with the Project management - rather than me the householder) I am really surprised and a little concerned that I find myself in this situation. And where I fully expect to pay for power consumed I am worried that I am liable in any way.

Any professional thoughts and advice more than welcome.

Bob

 

[RS2OOO]

I'm no sparks.

I'd probably leave things for a couple of Months and if nothing comes of it change suppliers, then after another couple of Months get an electrician in to sort it.

Bit off topic but funny how these things are so one sided. I complained 4 years ago that my meter was spinning faster and faster.... Supplier not interested, just kept telling me it was my usage, not the meter.

It gradually got even faster and faster, then suddenly stopped working, so I called supplier and amazingly they were now interested and had someone round to change the meter within an hour.

The meter installer wasn't taking my old meter anywhere.... I wouldn't let him take it as I wanted it for evidence to make comparison against the usage on the new meter.

Bill eventually comes in and it's even higher on the new meter, much higher, I thought wait a minute, something's not right here, then I noticed the "actual" reading on the bill from the old meter was around 2000 units higher than what was actually on the old meter.

Called them up and said they had the reading wrong (from the old meter)...they wouldn't accept it, advised that it was taken from 2 identical records which had been collected by the engineer who changed the meter. I argued the point, eventually put through to a Manager, the argument continued.

Then I came out with the killer line..... "I have the old meter sitting right here in front of me complete with the tamper tags intact, would you like to come and see it".

"Oh, we're very sorry, must have been a mistake our end, we'll send a form out for you to fill in and claim back the excess charges".

That was 2 Months ago.... form arrived in the post this Week.

Can I turn up at their offices with the police in tow?

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'm no sparks.

I'd probably leave things for a couple of Months and if nothing comes of it change suppliers, then after another couple of Months get an electrician in to sort it.

Bit off topic but funny how these things are so one sided. I complained 4 years ago that my meter was spinning faster and faster.... Supplier not interested, just kept telling me it was my usage, not the meter.

It gradually got even faster and faster, then suddenly stopped working, so I called supplier and amazingly they were now interested and had someone round to change the meter within an hour.

The meter installer wasn't taking my old meter anywhere.... I wouldn't let him take it as I wanted it for evidence to make comparison against the usage on the new meter.

Bill eventually comes in and it's even higher on the new meter, much higher, I thought wait a minute, something's not right here, then I noticed the "actual" reading on the bill from the old meter was around 2000 units higher than what was actually on the old meter.

Called them up and said they had the reading wrong (from the old meter)...they wouldn't accept it, advised that it was taken from 2 identical records which had been collected by the engineer who changed the meter. I argued the point, eventually put through to a Manager, the argument continued.

Then I came out with the killer line..... "I have the old meter sitting right here in front of me complete with the tamper tags intact, would you like to come and see it".

"Oh, we're very sorry, must have been a mistake our end, we'll send a form out for you to fill in and claim back the excess charges".

That was 2 Months ago.... form arrived in the post this Week.

Can I turn up at their offices with the police in tow?

A good result - well done, but I'm surprised they haven't tried to do you for stealing their meter !!!

 

[Guitarist]

Charge them interest. I think that's what they would do....

 

[Midwest]

Have you read the Theft Act? I doubt it? There has to be intention to permanently deprive somebody of something. Having a 'qualified spark' wire up your house and the extension built and managed by a Project Manager certainly suggests that there was no intention on the OPs part and they would have a valid defence to any complaint. You employ and 'expert' for a reason? It would be a dumb person that intentionally tried to steel electricity for several years and then come on a public forum and admit it?

There is one flaw to that argument, the gent now knows (as been wisely advised by this forum) that he is getting electricity for free and any court (if it ever got that far) would form a view about his 'mensrea' or he knew he was breaking the law.

Homeworker, my advice would be to stop messing around and get on the phone to your supplier as soon as possible. If you get the fault fixed and not tell the supplier (can't believe people suggesting that!) and subsequently get found out you will end up in court and possibly in prison.

Abstracting electricity S13 Theft Act 1968.

You may have a high bill to pay back, but I think you would rather that than spending time behind bars. A high level of gain is one of the aggravating factors for sentencing.
As others have said, you do not perpetrate this offence,and it is possible it was a simple mistake by the electrician. The difference is you now know!

 

[legge]

I have followed this entire thread and my advice would be to inform your supplier asap. You will not get into trouble due to the seals being intact.Your supplier will get the network owner to investigate. The seal number (3 digits impressed into ferrul) will identify the sealer. It is then between them.Dont offer to pay, instead insist the mistake is theirs, if they agree, they will not charge you for past use. You will have to budget for the extra consumption from now on though.I worked for Midlands Electricity for many years and know what Im on about. I would definately take the advice of all those before me who have said take photos. Try and take a macro shot showing the seal number. Is this number the same as on the meter? Has the seal been squashed by pliers (no number inprint), in which case sparky most likely did it!Above all, dont worry, if your cooperative and report it you should be ok.By the way, all suppliers are now sistematically sending people round to check the meter/equipment - Eon have told me they will send out someone to check my meter, and that he will conduct a thorough check of the suppliers installation and will take 20-30 minutes! Extract what you will from this...

 

[Swicade]

After looking at the pictures i noticed a couple of things:-

1) no seal on the meter
2) Tails from Henley block to meter AND Tails from Henley block to new disboard are of the same make AND have same taped marking's on them
3) Henley block has a seal.
4) The original brown sheathed tails have a nice bend out of the fuse/neutral block BUT going into the Henley block it's got a stretched bend (kind of)

Now if i was the suspicious type it's looks to me as though the seal was removed from the meter,Brown sheathed tails disconnected and put into the Henley block,new grey sheathed tails connected to meter at the same time new tails to new disboard were connected to Henley block AND the seal wire then cut shorter and the cut of the wire is hidden at the screw of Henley block lid.

I'd have thought if a meter connector had wired it up all wrong there'd also be a seal on the meter itself tbh.

Looks to me as though someone didn't like the cost of getting DNO to connect new tails to the meter and decided to go the cheap route and made a right c*** up of it.

 

[craigj85]

Yes whoever did it has bypassed the meter. the tails going to the original CU should have been split

 

[dwardy]

looks to me like your getting free electric. btw how far away is the new D.B. you cant run meter tails far

 

[Poptasticdave]

Having read this thread all through, a couple of thoughts cross my mind.

Firstly, that DNO's fuse looks like the seals have been broken and not replaced (can't see metal seals but paper ones with warning certainly have).

Secondly, as far as I can see, the service splitter under the meter looks like there are open break outs without cables ---- extremely dangerous surely, especially when facing upwards where something could be dropped in by accident (and worse still fished out by an unsuspecting finger).

Thirdly, isn't that a cast iron service head? Possibly with rubber tails for the few inches between the head and the service fuse and service Neutral link?

Now I know that none of the above excuse what is clearly a cock up by someone which has resulted in bypassing the meter, but surely any of the three things I've mentioned should attract the interest of the DNO and if they don't, the DNO should be asked to take an interest, from a safety point of view?

This thread is getting a bit older now - any chance of an update from the OP? Has the DNO been informed yet? What happened? Are they going to / have they already fixed the fault and hopefully tidied the whole thing up a bit?

 

[sedgy34]

There's alot of people getting free electric but most have solar panels on ther roofs lol

The way I see this is you have paid a sparky to do a job and he's certified it so as far as you are concerned you wouldn't know he's bypast the meter cause that's why you got him in to do a job you know nothing about. Enjoy your free lecky DNO can't have you for it. Also meter readers don't know what they are lookin at other than numbers.

Simples

 

[lja]

hope im not too late for this thread worked for dno and suppliers way to treat this is like this contact supplier inform them you had your electrician round to check your house ect and he informed you your meter has been wired incorrectly he is not allowed to touch it and needs attention asap your worried about saftey they must act and theyl log saftey issue. do not contact dno if possible they prob just cut you off and say ring supplier as well as informing them themselves regarding meter reader taking time the problem with that is he may be a meter fitter on reading duty hence he should spot it a mile off if he has informed supplier they can push a revenue protection case warrent ect you dont want to get that far by looks of pic seals are present on henley but not meter curious they should send someone round by appointment and they should also book with dno to get that service changed more than due one 6 to 8 week turn around you must make the call my friend.
the second way is to get an electrician whose comfortable to do so to cut seals and rectify then ring supplier and ask for a reseal due to emergency board change (grey area) theyl send someone out to put new ones on after huffing and puffing a while but again it saftey issue they must comply however if the meter reader has informed supplier you could make yourself look very guilty.

 

[exniceic]

I consider this a cock and bull story someone has contrived. anyone especially a qualified sparky should have picked this up.
I THESE BASIC QUESTIONS.
1/ IF THE TAILS TO ALL THE CU's CAME OUT OF THE SAME HENLEY BLOCK THEN THIS WOUD MEAN THE THE HOUSE HOLDER WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A ELECTRICITY BILL SINCE THE HOUSE WAS WIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
2/ FOR THE CU TAILS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SUPPY METER (WHICH IS THE CORRECT MAINS SUPPLY IN TERMINALS) THEN THE SUPPLY COMPANY'S 80/100 CUTOUT FUSE WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED, AND THEIR SEAL BROKEN.
3/ THE GUY READING THE METER WOULD HAVE NOTICED AND REPORTED THIS.

Like I said this earlier, this story has a smell to it

 

[Lacy]

If you read the Op's posts properly you will see that it only an additional CU that has been connected to the wrong side when an extension was built. The original CU is off the correct side so will still be getting bills relative only to the elec used on the original CU.....

 

[HandySparks]

I consider this a cock and bull story someone has contrived. anyone especially a qualified sparky should have picked this up.
I THESE BASIC QUESTIONS.
1/ IF THE TAILS TO ALL THE CU's CAME OUT OF THE SAME HENLEY BLOCK THEN THIS WOUD MEAN THE THE HOUSE HOLDER WOULD NEVER HAVE HAD A ELECTRICITY BILL SINCE THE HOUSE WAS WIRED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
2/ FOR THE CU TAILS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SUPPY METER (WHICH IS THE CORRECT MAINS SUPPLY IN TERMINALS) THEN THE SUPPLY COMPANY'S 80/100 CUTOUT FUSE WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED, AND THEIR SEAL BROKEN.
3/ THE GUY READING THE METER WOULD HAVE NOTICED AND REPORTED THIS.

Like I said this earlier, this story has a smell to it

Welcome to the forum exniceic and thank you for your well-researched and considered post after two years of membership. As Lacy says, only part of the load is unmetered and the OP is not a qualified sparky.
Next time, do you mind not shouting. Regards.

 

[thefish]

I wonder why the OP has gone quiet and removed the original photos? Maybe they've decided not inform the supplier?

 

[Silly Sausage]

In Jail & the pictures have been removed for evidence?

I hope not! :-(

 

[Lacy]

I did submit a post to this thread a few days ago clarifying the legal position but as it was my first post it told me the reply had to be moderated before it would be displayed. It seems to have disappeared into the ether.....

 

[Stroppy]

Here are the pictures I recovered from my cache:

and

 

[exniceic]

It looks like the original supply tails to the meter are the old brown colour outer sheaf which was the common colour at the time. I can see from your photos now the new tail arrangement. It still does not alter the fact that the Supply Company's supply to that property has been comprimised illegally. and fraud has taken place.
I have never,ever, known a Supply Company install a Henley Box before their meter.

Someone is in big trouble, if it was me I would emigrate. (joke)

 

[Lacy]

Yet again, I have typed a fairly comprehensive reply outlining the legal aspects and this damn board tells me it has to be moderated first before it is posted.......I am only trying to help and enlighten here, folks.....will this reply disappear into the ether too?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Lacy, you might have to have X number of posts before you are unleashed.
Don't give up.

 

[Lacy]

Can't understand why it's letting me post some replies....like this one....and not others?

 

[Knobhead]

Have you being trying to include pictures in the posts?

That is one limiting factor I know of for a newcommer

 

[Lacy]

It might be because the reply included links to relevant legislation.....but if the moderator looks at it they will see there's nothing dodgy there.....it's just that it's the second time I've typed it all out and I've had no contact from a mod about either post; they just disappear with seemingly no trace....

 

[Geordie Spark]

It might be because the reply included links to relevant legislation.....but if the moderator looks at it they will see there's nothing dodgy there.....it's just that it's the second time I've typed it all out and I've had no contact from a mod about either post; they just disappear with seemingly no trace....

Hi Lacy.

I don't know what's happening with your posts, I'm just a member here same as you, but how about typing your posts in Notepad, then saving them to your pc then copy & paste here on the board. That way, you'll always be able to re-post when / if you're able to.

(Sorry if I'm teaching my granny how to suck eggs.)

 

[Lacy]

No mate, you're right, I should have saved the post Somewhere else before hitting the send button. serves me right.......I'll have another crack at it soon!

 

[Lacy]

Just to clarify a couple of legal points:

A few people have mentioned ‘theft’. It’s technically impossible to steal electricity. In order to commit theft you have to dishonestly appropriate ‘property’ and property has to be tangible and it’s because electricity is intangible that the offence of abstracting electricity was created in the 1968 Theft act.

Abstracting Electricity
Section 13 Theft Act 1968 - 5 years - indictable (triable either way) offence
It is an offence for a person to dishonestly :-
• use without due authority, or
• cause to be wasted, or

• cause to be diverted,

any electricity.

Note the use of the word ‘dishonestly’. If the original poster is a lay person who had work done for him it would be difficult to prove any degree of dishonesty up to the point that he became aware that there was a problem with the wiring. As soon as he becomes aware (by asking in this thread for example) any subsequent use without notifying his supplier would more than likely be deemed dishonest.

The other offence that may have been committed here is by his electrician:

Tampering with electricity meters
Section 31 and Schedule 7,Article 11Electricity Act 1989 - level 3 fine - summary offence
It is an offence for a person, with intent or culpable negligence, to alter the measuring capability of any meter, or prevent a meter from registering the quantity of electricity supplied.
It would be difficult for his electrician to argue that he wasn’t culpably negligent given the obvious faux pas that has been made here.

If it were me, I would contact my supplier ASAP with an explanation of what has happened and details of how long the wiring has been like that, a list of appliances and loads on the unmetered circuits and estimated usage together with an assurance that I intend to pay for unmetered electricity used.

As the meter reader has, it seems, already clocked the problem, to do anything, such as getting the wiring altered now as if nothing has ever happened, could be deemed dishonest.

 

[Midwest]

There is one flaw to that argument, the gent now knows (as been wisely advised by this forum) that he is getting electricity for free and any court (if it ever got that far) would form a view about his 'mensrea' or he knew he was breaking the law.

Homeworker, my advice would be to stop messing around and get on the phone to your supplier as soon as possible. If you get the fault fixed and not tell the supplier (can't believe people suggesting that!) and subsequently get found out you will end up in court and possibly in prison.

Abstracting electricity S13 Theft Act 1968.

You may have a high bill to pay back, but I think you would rather that than spending time behind bars. A high level of gain is one of the aggravating factors for sentencing.
As others have said, you do not perpetrate this offence,and it is possible it was a simple mistake by the electrician. The difference is you now know!

Did mention this before Lacy, and the original thread owner seems very conspicuous by his absence. I suspect he is a very worried person, but the longer they leave it to contact the supplier (now that they know it is wrong, both technically AND legally), the worse things will become. Let’s hope homeworker comes back to us to say he has made contact with his supplier.

 

[sedgy34]

The op shouldn't do anything!!!! As I posted before he's got an electrical cert from a sparky who did his newly works the op is a consumer therefore non the wiser lol

 

[Guitarist]

The op shouldn't do anything!!!! As I posted before he's got an electrical cert from a sparky who did his newly works the op is a consumer therefore non the wiser lol

Used to be non the wiser...