UK Emergency lighting regs

[djm0057]

Fire exit doors are supposed to be opened regularly, to check they aren't swollen and stuck and that there isn't anything the other side blocking it.

Does this door open into an area outside where you can get away from the building, if on fire, like car park or other yard, which if secured also has a fire exit in the wall / fence?

Yes it opens to outside

 

[djm0057]

As an electrical building services designer, I can confirm davesparks is correct.

The other thing you need to consider is BS5266 calls for an increased emergency lighting level at locations such as containing firefighting equipment, fire alarm panels, break glasses & push bars on escape doors.

The door is also the only disabled access door. Can a disabled access door be a fire exit door which can only be opened by using the break class cause we haven't access to the padlock key?

 

[littlespark]

You’re now looking at disabled access which is a different set of standards and regulations.

Take it away from “is it a fire door or not” to “ you’ve locked a disabled access door”

To my mind, it should be open and as accessible as the main door everyone else uses…. But due to security reasons, must be locked until required.

The other argument is, you’re wanting this door open for fresh air…. Is there not adequate ventilation in the building? Is it a stuffy, hot atmosphere in there which could be harmful to health?
That’s another way of thinking.

 

[djm0057]

You’re now looking at disabled access which is a different set of standards and regulations.

Take it away from “is it a fire door or not” to “ you’ve locked a disabled access door”

To my mind, it should be open and as accessible as the main door everyone else uses…. But due to security reasons, must be locked until required.

The other argument is, you’re wanting this door open for fresh air…. Is there not adequate ventilation in the building? Is it a stuffy, hot atmosphere in there which could be harmful to health?
That’s another way of thinking.

Yip in our mind it's a disabled access as there is no other way for a disabled person to access our level of the building. Our manager doesn't want us using the door to go outside for fresh air etc so he decided to tell us that it's a fire exit door and needs to be locked at all times. I've argued that it doesn't conform to regulations, which through everyone's knowledge on here, I think I've been proven right.

 

[littlespark]

I suppose the next question might be, is there another emergency exit nearby that is marked up as such…. And does it, and any other emergency door have a light above?

There is a number of issues that need clarified.

Is this an emergency exit?
Is this a disabled access?

Why is management being obtrusive? Do they actually think there is a reason why it shouldn’t be opened…. Or are they just being pig-headed?

 

[djm0057]

I suppose the next question might be, is there another emergency exit nearby that is marked up as such…. And does it, and any other emergency door have a light above?

There is a number of issues that need clarified.

Is this an emergency exit?
Is this a disabled access?

Why is management being obtrusive? Do they actually think there is a reason why it shouldn’t be opened…. Or are they just being pig-headed?

Ok so, we work in a big control centre (we work alongside National Grid to balance mechanism) which is one big room which has another room off it, called the huddle room. In this huddle room is said door. It has no emergency light in that room. It has no emergency exit stickers directing you to the room and the so called emergency door. (Which is a disabled access) It only has stickers on the door saying fire door, keep shut. In our big control centre room is a proper fire exit door. I'm saying proper because it's got emergency light above the door and signage directing you to the exit.

The manager is being obtrusive because he never admits to being wrong and only his opinion is correct. We can't for the life's of us think why it bothers him that much that he hides the padlock key

 

[bennie]

Ok so, we work in a big control centre (we work alongside National Grid to balance mechanism) which is one big room which has another room off it, called the huddle room. In this huddle room is said door. It has no emergency light in that room. It has no emergency exit stickers directing you to the room and the so called emergency door. (Which is a disabled access) It only has stickers on the door saying fire door, keep shut. In our big control centre room is a proper fire exit door. I'm saying proper because it's got emergency light above the door and signage directing you to the exit.

The manager is being obtrusive because he never admits to being wrong and only his opinion is correct. We can't for the life's of us think why it bothers him that much that he hides the padlock key

You have to have two means of escape from a building so on your fire escape route plane where is the second exit? If that door is not part of either escape route then both should be signed from the main room. Also if that room, depending on size, use & light from an outside source if there are windows in it, does not require general emergency lighting but you would expect there to be an illuminated running man above the door in to the main area. Another thing is it disabled access in to the building or or is it the disabled exit if there was a fire?

 

[djm0057]

You have to have two means of escape from a building so on your fire escape route plane where is the second exit? If that door is not part of either escape route then both should be signed from the main room. Also if that room, depending on size, use & light from an outside source if there are windows in it, does not require general emergency lighting but you would expect there to be an illuminated running man above the door in to the main area. Another thing is it disabled access in to the building or or is it the disabled exit if there was a fire?

There are other fire escape routes within the building outside of our room. There is no outside lighting as we are in the middle of nowhere on an estate. It's disabled access and egress as there is no other way a disabled person get to our level without using the stairs in the building

 

[westward10]

You have to have two means of escape from a building so on your fire escape route plane where is the second exit?

This is not necessarily correct. The scale of building and footfall may permit a single means of escape.

 

[westward10]

If the door is deemed a means of escape in an emergency then it requires an emergency luminaire.

 

[bennie]

This is not necessarily correct. The scale of building and footfall may permit a single means of escape.

In general there should normally be at least 2 escape routes but in certain circumstances one is acceptable. One example is if a part of the building only accomadates up to 60 people, there are other points to look at but the fire officer would be able to give more advice. If you are on the first floor or above you would expect two or more and each would be independent from each other.

 

[westward10]

In general there should normally be at least 2 escape routes but in certain circumstances one is acceptable. One example is if a part of the building only accomadates up to 60 people, there are other points to look at but the fire officer would be able to give more advice. If you are on the first floor or above you would expect two or more and each would be independent from each other.

You stated there must be two means of escape, this is not correct. I am well aware of building requirements.

 

[bennie]

You stated there must be two means of escape, this is not correct. I am well aware of building requirements.

I said in general and that there are circumstances where one is acceptable. I even gave a reason where one is accepted

 

[westward10]

I said in general and that there are circumstances where one is acceptable. I even gave a reason where one is accepted

See #27.

 

[bennie]

Yes. Wrong choice of wording. But i would in general like to see two escape routes and if there isn't I look at the one and make sure it complies.

 

[djm0057]

Yes. Wrong choice of wording. But i would in general like to see two escape routes and if there isn't I look at the one and make sure it complies.

Just to inform everyone, you are all wrong according to my line manager who has absolutely zero electrical/emergency lighting experience. Oh to be as clever as him

 

[Boristheengine]

Sounds to me like several things may be being confused:

Fire exit door - a means to escape the building when there is a fire. Needs appropriate signage, lighting and door handles to help people exit in a hurry. I would have thought the rules don't care if the door is open or not when there is no fire.

Fire door - a door that needs to resist the spread of fire. Often between fire compartments in a building. These need to be closed when there is a fire to do their job. Various ways are used if making sure they are closed in a fire are used like signs saying "keep shut", springs that close the doors, automatic closing doors etc


It sounds to me like the problem may be that it is a fire door and that the way they are ensuring it is closed in a fire is by keeping it locked shut. Are there springs/door closers on the door so that it closes automatically when you do open it?

 

[mainline]

Whether it be a Fire door, Disabled access, Fire Escape or just a door, it's easily opened in an emergency.

The manager may have other reasons for not wanting the door open, such as security, or maybe It's just to stop the mess that's been left there.

 

[littlespark]

I think the confusion is that whether the door is an emergency exit or not, the issue is that the staff would like the door open for fresh air, the manager says no, and is giving the excuse that it’s a fire door and must remain closed…. And to clarify his position, he’s padlocking it shut.

I asked earlier whether there was adequate ventilation…. If not, it’s an HSE issue.


My 17yo daughter is working at a factory for summer and I just found out there’s only 2 toilets… (1 unisex, 1 disabled) for over 50 staff…. So I might be reading up on HSE more than I should recently.

 

[snowhead]

My 17yo daughter is working at a factory for summer and I just found out there’s only 2 toilets… (1 unisex, 1 disabled) for over 50 staff…. So I might be reading up on HSE more than I should recently.

Have the right toilets and washing facilities - HSE

Employers must provide adequate toilets and wash facilities for those expected to use them. You must always consider the needs of those with disabilities.

www.hse.gov.uk