Discuss EV charging points 2020 in the Electric Vehicles Advice Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Yeah, at the moment with so much of the design/requirement aspects in '7671 it does lean toward the installer being more responsible than the actual manufacturer !

That's why I think it shouldn't be any more than any other kit, a MCB is en 60898, providing the rating and installation is fine the distinction is clear, it's the manufacturers' responsibility beyond this. It should be the same for Charge points.

They are quite techy bits of kit (although actually all they do is present mains voltage to the vehicle - along with communications on available rating etc) - it's specialist stuff and shouldn't be up to the installer.

When I've listened to those vids/podcast, they talk of the technicalities of them and talk about the regs in relation to them in the Amendment 1. They also seem a bit disgruntled that BS7671 is leaning to had over the responsibilities to the manufacturers.

And perhaps your right, it shouldn't be the installers responsibility. What seems alarming, is these manufactures are seemingly taking different routes. Is there a BS standard for them?

I wonder what advice my friend has been given, by the dealership of his new ev car; its currently sat on the driveway, plugged into an ordinary socket (PME) in his garage.
 
I wonder what advice my friend has been given, by the dealership of his new ev car; its currently sat on the driveway, plugged into an ordinary socket (PME) in his garage.
My guess is no advice at all. I’ve had to replace a few outlets that have been cooked by car chargers, oops.
 
I wonder what advice my friend has been given, by the dealership of his new ev car; its currently sat on the driveway, plugged into an ordinary socket (PME) in his garage.

None.
Car dealers don't instruct on how to fill up with petrol / diesel or the risks of doing so.
I doubt they have any knowledge or any interest in discussing loss of PEN with people, who mostly wouldn't understand.

My Daughter in Law bought a used Nissan Leaf a few months ago.
There was no mention or instruction re charging other than confirming the 2 charging leads were included.
It was around a month before they had a charge point installed.
She charges the car at work for free mainly but did use the 13amp lead occassionally.

Same Daughter in Law suffered a slight shock from a socket screw at a previous house when the whole estate of around 50 houses lost PEN.
 
When I've listened to those vids/podcast, they talk of the technicalities of them and talk about the regs in relation to them in the Amendment 1. They also seem a bit disgruntled that BS7671 is leaning to had over the responsibilities to the manufacturers.

And perhaps your right, it shouldn't be the installers responsibility. What seems alarming, is these manufactures are seemingly taking different routes. Is there a BS standard for them?

I wonder what advice my friend has been given, by the dealership of his new ev car; its currently sat on the driveway, plugged into an ordinary socket (PME) in his garage.

Nope, no real standard, there is for the communication protocol and technical operation, but not for the overall design, I think there should be, just like there is for any other kit!

I doubt he was told anything other than "plug this granny charger into any socket to charge the car"

These 13A 'granny' chargers are just the same as the other ones in operation (10A) but have no internal protection whatsoever, and will be plugged into socket outlets at one's Gran's house having no rcd protection at all since its an old build, or one's brother's house with type ac rcd protection etc.

They are the worse around, but aren't really the subject of 722 - this is more about the fixed 16A and 32A charge points.
 
None.
Car dealers don't instruct on how to fill up with petrol / diesel or the risks of doing so.
I doubt they have any knowledge or any interest in discussing loss of PEN with people, who mostly wouldn't understand.

My Daughter in Law bought a used Nissan Leaf a few months ago.
There was no mention or instruction re charging other than confirming the 2 charging leads were included.
It was around a month before they had a charge point installed.
She charges the car at work for free mainly but did use the 13amp lead occassionally.

Same Daughter in Law suffered a slight shock from a socket screw at a previous house when the whole estate of around 50 houses lost PEN.

Guess that might change, if someone got hurt.

I'll report back, when I bump into my friend and tell him of the potential dangers, of what he is currently doing. See what his reaction might be or not.
 
That's the thing, re people getting hurt.
If there are deaths / injuries attributable to E.Vs then a more co-ordinated and logical approach will suddenly happen.
Likewise if there are reports of sparks jumping to the ground from E.Vs on charge in the rain.
Car manufacturers don't like deaths caused buy them, although they appear to need a few before they react.

Like a lot of other past issues people have had plenty of warning but choose to react too slowly then wonder why they can't get a grip on the problem.
So called Smart meters being one example.
 
These 13A 'granny' chargers are just the same as the other ones in operation (10A) but have no internal protection whatsoever, and will be plugged into socket outlets at one's Gran's house having no rcd protection at all since its an old build, or one's brother's house with type ac rcd protection etc.

Thats another thing not thought about; my friend has Type AC RCD's, in his new build.
 
Thats another thing not thought about; my friend has Type AC RCD's, in his new build.


Yup, the 'bug' list goes on and on, the technology isn't mature, but it's a nice political soundbite, so it becomes an edict with no regards to getting the technology correct before we start putting this rubbish in place!

It should have been fully specified and regulated with workable standards before the widespread introduction!
 
Seems there was a report, not generally public, that is discussed on IET » Wiring and the regulations » LOST NEUTRAL FAULTS ON PME SYTEMS

Upper limit quoted was 1.1E-6 per year (big spread, lower 7.8E-9) but I'm not sure on what basis this is (i.e. by number of people, or number of EV cars?). Not trivial as could be a few per year. Well, maybe trivial compared to COVID-19...

Odd thing is the reluctance from the DNO (or HSE) to actually publish the stats.
 

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