farm (grain drier)with no rcd on sockets

[plantpot]

Hi
We do alot of work on quite a large farm and always fit iP rated sockets etc all with 30ma rcd protection both 3 ph and 1ph..
They have had a new grain drier shed built and it has been wired by another contractor due to time limits we could not complie to.

When we have looked around we have noticed the following which opinions would be greatfull.

Distribution boards not IP44
13A sockets not IP44
13Asockets 300ma protection
16A 4 pin sockets 300ma protection

Do we think mybe the contractor is classing it as not a agricultural building.

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

i think the crucial point is whether or not livestock are involved as regards RCDs. as for the IP ratings, it depends on the environment.

 

[shanky887614]

i think the crucial point is whether or not livestock are involved as regards RCDs. as for the IP ratings, it depends on the environment.

sounds like a very dusty enviroment.

any arching could create an explosion, quite a big risk in mills etc.

google custard factory explosion.

feel free to correct me if im wrong

 

[Richard Burns]

I think for a grain drying room I would expect there to be a lot of dust and so would have at least dust sealed equipment IP5X.
Sockets generally require 30mA RCD protection, but often omitted in commercial locations (not that I agree with that).

I would expect that they have classed it as agricultural but without the presence of livestock.

 

[PEG]

In the past i have worked in such places,and yes,dust is an understatement. Consideration has to be given to the mass,of debris build up,as it will grow proportional to footprint and slump angle. It can also be explosive. RCD protection may or may not have been assessed correctly,that is the designers responsibility. Sockets in use within the drier itself,would need careful selection,as the dust is copious,like glue when damp,and a good insulator when dry.Unless you can identify specific impending issues,and stand by them,leave the responsibility with the original installers. Oh,and have a bit of a heads-up,when working in there at harvest time,DO NOT think that a hi-vis,signage,a risk assessment and a chat with the drier manager,will prevent a 20 tonne trailer full of barley from squashing you flat. Imagine the first ten minutes of "Saving private ryan",only you have a MFT instead of a gun...

 

[JD6400]

Hi
We do alot of work on quite a large farm and always fit iP rated sockets etc all with 30ma rcd protection both 3 ph and 1ph..
They have had a new grain drier shed built and it has been wired by another contractor due to time limits we could not complie to.

When we have looked around we have noticed the following which opinions would be greatfull.

Distribution boards not IP44
13A sockets not IP44
13Asockets 300ma protection
16A 4 pin sockets 300ma protection

Do we think mybe the contractor is classing it as not a agricultural building.

Thanks

It sounds pretty poor to be honest , I would expect 30mA regardless .
And as for the IP rating , that is a fire waiting to happen !

 

[Fin170]

Id have RCD covered sockets based on the average 'skilled' farm workers bodging I've seen

And normally we debate metal clad vs weather proof on farms, for that enviroment Id opt for the highest IP gear the grant allows

 

[Knobhead]

If the building is purely for the grain drier why should it be classed as agricultural?

Shanky has come up with the killer though, explosive atmospheres. I wouldn’t even allow a socket in there, too bloody dangerous.

 

[Clive P]

Hi,

Tony and Shanky, I would definitely agree with what you say ref explosive atmospheres. I worked in Hazardous areas for 20 years ( never with dusts though ). If I remember correctly there is a specification for dusts that encompasses Zones 20,21 & 22.
When I did my first Compex course they showed us how you could create an explosion using a standard IR tester in a dusty environment. Certainly makes you think about hazardous areas. From memory I believe one of the most flammable dusts is flour.
I for one would be looking at this environment very carefully.

Regards.

 

[Guest111]

I maintain a grain store,when I designed the installation it was purposely planned that there would be as little equipment as possible within certain area's.any sockets are the commando type and the only people allowed to use them are myself and the other guy who does maintenance,I,m not there that much these days but if anything is being done then they call me in to supervise it,no matter what you do you can,t always factor out the inginuity of the terminally stupid.

 

[listener]

I was involved with hazardous area inspections of a bio-ethanol plant. The other inspectors and I had to have both gas and dust compex. The grain silos were where we needed to have the dust compex and after the process when the ethanol was produced then compex gas was required.

 

[t-s]

I've done quite a few driers, problem is with modern driers the fans and belts are inverter driven (will trip 30ma rcd) we did suggest to the panel builders split everything up on separate rcds but they didn't care

 

[Knobhead]

Read the original post!
We’re not talking about VSD’s.

Why anyone would put hard wired drives on RCD’s is beyond me.

 

[edexlab]

I've worked on a farm doing a separate job (supplies for robot milking machine) and other contractors were welding on site....
I was walking to the van and a farm worker opened the grain store doors and the wind blew up a big cloud of dust which ignited when the welder was struck up, never mind "Saving Private Ryan" it was more like a scene from "Apocalypse now" cue a big dull thump noise and rolling clouds of flames right over the guys and vehicles outside

It went out quite quickly but I'm guessing it would have been worse if it had happened in a store with the doors shut in this case the wind blew it away from the building rather than into it.
Never realised how fast I could move wearing work boots until then,
the ball of fire was about 40ft across and 30 ft high initially and came across the yard straight at me but fizzled out as it got to me.

 

[edexlab]

Spent the rest of the day laughing at the one contractors singed hair, he'd got a brand new smelly perm! Luckily that was the worst of it though,
Farmer was a bit worried as he'd got a leaking propane tank quite close to this shed that he'd been meaning to get someone in to......