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Which would probably be a much easier option - and cheaper for the customer too.
The extra question is - how did this get signed off in the first place. I’ve heard it happens regularly - this being a property less than 10’years old so 17th edition regs - they still required this protection didn’t they?
You don’t know the installation method of the tails, it was possibly signed off because they were installed in compliance with bs7671, there’s a switch fuse at the origin and the tails could be installed with mechanical protection in accordance with 522.6.204 indent iv, so if maybe compliant, you can’t condemn something that you think might be wrong without evidence, is the customer happy for you to bash the wall out to see?
I have installed a short length of meter tails buried in a wall using this method, except I write this down in the comments section on the EIC.

I can’t imagine the customer would be happy for you to bash holes in ceilings/ walls and take up the chipboard floor to run in another cable, or have an ugly swa clipped externally to the house, if it’s not necessary.
 
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surely, RCD protection is only required for the tails if they are <50mm deep from wall surface and not SWA or otherwise mechanically protected. if they are > 50mm from wall surface, they are compliant. ( not referring to TT earthing btw).
 
I’ve got no doubt that installers think that if there’s a CU in zone then they can install the tails in a wall without the required precautions, but I also know that some people install them to the regulations, my point is you can’t see them so can’t possibly code them based on a hunch and certainly can’t deem them potentially dangerous and have them renewed without knowing.
The fact that he guy on the video commented that tails don’t have an earth incorporated into them like a sheathed cable was irrelevant and showed lack of understanding of the regulations as there’s no requirement for a cable to contain a cpc, then asked his video audience what he should code it as .
 
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Which would probably be a much easier option - and cheaper for the customer too.
The extra question is - how did this get signed off in the first place. I’ve heard it happens regularly - this being a property less than 10’years old so 17th edition regs - they still required this protection didn’t they?

Because new builds are thrown up by gangs of trained chimps directed by baboons working for fat cats.

I worked on a house where this problem existed. SWA used but not glanded or earthed at either end, no fuse, approx 12m run.

House was that new the road wasn't even tarmacked.

One socket circuit for upstairs, another for whole downstairs including kitchen, all appliances, hob and oven.

I noted it on the cert for my work. Customer didn't want the hassle. I assume the entire estate was the same. Not what you want in your £400k house.
 
You don’t know the installation method of the tails, it was possibly signed off because they were installed in compliance with bs7671, there’s a switch fuse at the origin and the tails could be installed with mechanical protection in accordance with 522.6.204 indent iv, so if maybe compliant, you can’t condemn something that you think might be wrong without evidence, is the customer happy for you to bash the wall out to see?
I have installed a short length of meter tails buried in a wall using this method, except I write this down in the comments section on the EIC.

I can’t imagine the customer would be happy for you to bash holes in ceilings/ walls and take up the chipboard floor to run in another cable, or have an ugly swa clipped externally to the house, if it’s not necessary.
I understand that. I also get the fact that it would be a LiM in an inspection in this case. However, my query was based on us discovering that there was no protection and how we would resolve the problem - not specifically the one in the video.
The video just posed questions in my head that I was looking for different suggestions, ideas and solutions should I ever come across this myself.
 
Unprotected the tails can be Swa,without Rcd protection,otherwise a time delay Rcd @ front.
Then I would supply rcbo’s for outgoing circuits.
I think the problem with that is is that the tails would need 30mA RCD protection and i’m not sure a 30mA type S RCD will achieve selectivity with a standard 30mA RCD or RCBO. ?‍♂️
 
The fact that he guy on the video commented that tails don’t have an earth incorporated into them like a sheathed cable was irrelevant and showed lack of understanding of the regulations as there’s no requirement for a cable to contain a cpc
Indeed. I always ask why singles cables are manufactured if their belief was correct. Each point in the wiring requires a cpc - not each cable. I don't understand how this can be so misunderstood.
 
he might have something actually - singles not run in containment should have mechanical protection and there own earth 6241Y like when you run that neutral to the upstairs light it has it's own earth.
 
he might have something actually - singles not run in containment should have mechanical protection and there own earth 6241Y like when you run that neutral to the upstairs light it has it's own earth.
They are PVC sheathed cables and don't require containment.
 
mechanical protection = sheath

I'm not saying it's fact, I don't know more asking for BS 7671 reference that Singles not in
containment require mechanical protection(sheath) and own Earth(CPC) like 6241Y?- it's something I've heard before.
 
mechanical protection = sheath

I'm not saying it's fact, I don't know more asking for BS 7671 reference that Singles not in
containment require mechanical protection(sheath) and own Earth(CPC) like 6241Y?- it's something I've heard before.

Yes the basic insulation of cables should not be exposed in a finished installation (526.8)

Yes containment such as metal trunking and conduit provides mechanical protection and may be used as a cpc. It would need earthing regardless of use as a cpc or not (411.3.1.1 and 543.2)

Yes a cpc should be present at all points and accessories in a circuit (411.3.1.1)

I know of no reg which states sheathed cables need to have integral cpcs.
 
Yep - normally each cable without containment needs mechanical protection and it's own earth like 6241Y doesn't it?

No a cable does not have to have a protective conductor contained within it to be installed.
You can install insulated and sheathed singles such as 6181Y or single core H07-RNF with a seperate protective conductor.
 
got me thinking so I just did a search I actually can't see any single-core cable for standard circuits i.e 1.5mm or 2.5mm/lighting sockets etc with a sheath and without a CPC ? am I missing something?
 
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got me thinking so I just did a search I actually can't see any single-core cable for standard circuits i.e 1.5mm or 2.5mm/lighting sockets etc with a sheath and without a CPC ? am I missing something?
It wouldn't be common, or cost effective, to wire entire lighting and sockets in PVC/PVC singles. I've not come across any PVC/PVC 2.5mm, it would likely be a bit of a pointless cable as 2.5 T&E will do what is required at less cost.

It's very common in these parts (Northern Ireland) to use PVC/PVC 1.5mm single brown, blue, either with CPC or not for lighting circuits, but they would be for switch line drops to multigang switching etc, the majority of the circuit would be in T&E and looped at the rose. I generally loop at the switch and use 3 core and earth for 2 way, but I'd be in the minority here doing that. For alterations and additions the singles & singles and earth are really useful.
 
got me thinking so I just did a search I actually can't see any single-core cable for standard circuits i.e 1.5mm or 2.5mm/lighting sockets etc with a sheath and without a CPC ? am I missing something?

6181Y is available from 1.0mm to 35mm or maybe 50mm.
I see it all the time in existing lighting circuits.
 
I've not come across any PVC/PVC 2.5mm
Believe it or not it does exist. I had to get a coil of 2.5mm^2 PVC/PVC single brown around a year or more ago for a job. CEF were able to get me it, but obviously it wasn't a stock item.
 

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