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Discuss Joining 4 x 10mm conductors? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

happyhippydad

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This is a follow on to my kiln thread.

The kiln is 3 phase but can be run on single phase. It is 12kW.

It has 5 core 10mm2 flex attached to it.

The colours are brown, blue, grey, black, green/yellow.

I'm just looking for the best way to attach L1, L2, L3 and the single phase 10mm conductor together?

A 60A junction box wouldn't be suitable as there are too many conductors to squeeze in. I was thinking of some kind of terminal block with separate holes for each conductor (exactly like an earthing block, but insulated) but I can't find any? This would then be in a small enclosure/adaptable box etc.

I've got a feeling this is something pretty straight forward, but I've never had to join 4 x 10mm before, so it's not on my radar.

Also, with the 3 phase colours above. Are they UK (new) colours, meaning that the blue is the neutral? Below is a picture of the actual cable. the whitish looking one is actually grey. Cheers 😀

(3)Cable.jpg
 

happyhippydad

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Looks like they do a 4-way as well which would better suit you:
Looks good! Din rail mount too! Thanks PC 🙂

With regards the colours of the cable... Are they definitely UK (new colours) meaning the neutral is the blue? I am unsure due to the fact I dont deal with 3 phase, but also the fact that this is an old wenger kiln which was built way before 2006 when the colours changed.
 

telectrix

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i would assume Bn/Bk/Gy to be L1,L2,L3, and the blue to be N. if the kiln is wired in star, L1 -N, L2 - N, L3 -N, should give 3 equal readings on continuity.
 

Lucien Nunes

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ome kind of terminal block with separate holes for each conductor (exactly like an earthing block, but insulated) but I can't find any?

There are many different kinds, I keep half a dozen flavours in stock and used three only this morning. The type PC1966 linked are good, then you have the totally enclosed 'Italian' type that I use the most, e.g.

Cembre 5x16mm commoning block

Possibly the most substantial method is to put the requisite number of DIN rail terminals on a rail and link them with a commoning bar. Finally you can do worse than a stack of ring terminals on an insulated rail-mounted stud.

Yes those are harmonised colours. Check the wiring at the kiln end in case someone has done something daft. Be prepared to re-terminate that end if needed.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I've just looked at the pic on a bigger screen.... is that SY cable really 10mm²? It looks more like 4.0 or 6.0. It might just be the perspective of the pic though. And, why would anyone have fitted 5-core 10mm² when the current on 3-phase would only be 18 amps?

Also, are you are mounting an isolator nearby? Perhaps that would have some influence on how the cable is terminated and/or whether it is simply better to replace the existing.

Anyway, here are some more commoning blocks.

This first one is out of stock at the mo but I keep these in my toolbox as problem solvers for when a Wago isn't big enough. The RS Pro range includes some useful sizes, I find a lot of applications for the one with one 16mm² and ten 6mm² entries
4-way 16mm² commoning block from RS

If you want to go large, these Weidmüller blocks are well engineered and have both DIN rail and screw-hole mounting.
Weidmüller 5-way block

etc...

Ha - cross posted the same product as @pc1966. I use tons of these, they are fine. Made to a price - plain brass with pinch screws rather than rising cage clamps but substantial and robust, I've never sheared one or cracked the housing.
 
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happyhippydad

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I've just looked at the pic on a bigger screen.... is that SY cable really 10mm²? It looks more like 4.0 or 6.0. It might just be the perspective of the pic though. And, why would anyone have fitted 5-core 10mm² when the current on 3-phase would only be 18 amps?

Also, are you are mounting an isolator nearby? Perhaps that would have some influence on how the cable is terminated and/or whether it is simply better to replace the existing.

Anyway, here are some more commoning blocks.

This first one is out of stock at the mo but I keep these in my toolbox as problem solvers for when a Wago isn't big enough. The RS Pro range includes some useful sizes, I find a lot of applications for the one with one 16mm² and ten 6mm² entries
4-way 16mm² commoning block from RS

If you want to go large, these Weidmüller blocks are well engineered and have both DIN rail and screw-hole mounting.
Weidmüller 5-way block

etc...

Ha - cross posted the same product as @pc1966. I use tons of these, they are fine. Made to a price - plain brass with pinch screws rather than rising cage clamps but substantial and robust, I've never sheared one or cracked the housing.
I have to admit I have just assumed it's 10mm from looking at it. I'll get a pair of callipers on it to make sure but I'd be very surprised if it was 6mm.

The specification plate does state 415V or 240V, so would they have used a cable that could accommodate both? Is this likely?

How embarrassing, I didn't notice it was SY. I shall make sure to add the gland to the quote!

I was planning on using a 60A rotary switch as an isolator.
 

Lucien Nunes

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Sure, I'm not saying it isn't 10mm², I just thought it looked smaller based on recognisable items like the screw in the door handle

As you say, the kiln predates the harmonised colours and was probably supplied without cable. Commercial installations would often have had singles in flexible metal conduit or similar, rather than flex. Therefore there's no reason to assume that the present piece of SY is the ideal thing for the job, it might be what the previous installer had in his van.
 

loz2754

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The SY cable may well be sized correctly for 3 phase but would need to be bigger obviously for single phase as the neutral will be carrying the full current. Did someone already mention this? I'm going a bit senile.....
 

Lucien Nunes

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Yes. There was a previous thread about calculating the load, which could have gone like:
'12000/230=52 and 52/3=17.4, check that each element bank is somewhat below 230/17.4=13.5Ω, if so kiln is indeed 12kW as suspected, supply current on single phase is 52A, job done' but rambled on a bit. Somewhere along the way the point surfaced a few times.
 
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