Junction Boxes

[ITRIM]

I'm extending my kitchen which requires me to cut into the downstairs ringmain for further extension for more sockets. Is it safe and legal to use a 30AMP junction box (it's not possible for me to continue from an existing socket) to start the ringmain extension and loop back into using a junction box - or should I use crimps? The joins will be hidden in the ceiling void. Thanks Rich.

 

[trev]

Are you a qualified electrician?
The advice will differ depending on your answer

 

[D Skelton]

The very fact that you are asking this question makes me doubt that you have the competence to carry out this task. If you'd come on here asking peoples opinions on the word 'accessible' and how that word relates to ceiling voids then you might have recieved a different response.

I don't mean to be rude, but this is basic stuff!

If the joins will be accessible (a word open to much interpretation) then yes, JB's will do, if not, use crimps.

 

[Octopus]

It always amazes me that people embark on expensive house changes like kitchens and bathrooms but don't anticipate the cost of the basics like getting the foundations work, like electrics done properly.

I can well understand people wanting to fit the cupboards, tiles and flooring but they generally can't kill if they are done badly.

 

[Bright Sparks]

Ever hear, 'Oh I got a plumber in as I didn't want to get water everywhere, but I did all the electrics myself, honest your honour I didn't mean to kill those 4 people it was an honest mistake!'.

Am regularly astounded but 'intelligent' people who really don't get what 3 years of training and a decade or two of experience actually count for!

 

[Guitarist]

Hi Rich. From your question, I can only assume that you are undertaking this project as a diy'er. You really need to get a qualified electrician to do this work for you.

 

[ITRIM]

Thanks for your emphatic replies. I am a diy'er however let me explain further. My extension has had to go through planning permission and consequently the BCO. I'm aware that a kitchen is considered a 'special location' and requires 'Notification'; so by the virtue of these control measures i will only get a qualified electrician to test, inspect and issue a certificate of compliance in accordance with current legal requirements. A friend, who is a time served, qualified electrician will issue the neccessary certificates, i am doing the chaising in and cable running and other associated labour intensive and cost increasing jobs, but i am not doing anything on a live circuit.

I asked the origional question out of general interest because firstly my mate is out the country at the minute and unavaiable and secondly because i know there is some widely opposing views on crimps and JBs and what is considered 'an accessable site for JBs. Cheers Rich.

 

[telectrix]

OK, so, basically screw terminal JB must be accessible ( and that means without lifting floorboards etc. ) if inaccessible, you must use maintenance free connectors e.g. crimps.

 

[D Skelton]

and that means without lifting floorboards etc

See that would be the part I disagree with. A square of floorboard that can be unscrewed and lifted without any hassle would mean in my opinion that the JB below would be accessible. If that floorboard was properly and not loosely carpeted over however, that in my opinion would make the JB not accessible.

Tin hat on

 

[telectrix]

agree up to a point. however fitted carpet lifting can lead to customer complaints that you owe them a new carpet ( because the cat hadn't ripped it and the dog hadn't pee'd on it before you came) or laminate floor (yuck) could be fitted making it inaccessible.

 

[sjm]

See that would be the part I disagree with. A square of floorboard that can be unscrewed and lifted without any hassle would mean in my opinion that the JB below would be accessible. If that floorboard was properly and not loosely carpeted over however, that in my opinion would make the JB not accessible.

Tin hat on

So all JB's in ceiling voids are accessible if ONLY the people living in the house hadn't wanted that nasty floor covering stuff, lino, fitted carpet, laminate etc. Honestly inconsiderate buggers these customers/general public, lol.

 

[Adam W]

If your 'electrician-friend-who's-currently-not-available-to-ask' is putting his/her name on the certificate, they would want the installation carried out to their specifications rather than taking shortcuts which have been 'approved' by someone on a forum who's never seen the job.

 

[D Skelton]

agree up to a point. however fitted carpet lifting can lead to customer complaints that you owe them a new carpet ( because the cat hadn't ripped it and the dog hadn't pee'd on it before you came) or laminate floor (yuck) could be fitted making it inaccessible.

That was my point. If the carpet is loose, I would argue that would make JB under the screwed square of floorboard accessible but if it was fitted, or if laminate was layed, in my opinion, that would make it inaccessible.

 

[nickblake]

And to add to what Tel said the electricians night mare flooring Laminated you dont want to go lifting that ,arghhhhh if its inaccessible maintainance free IE ashly 803/804 jb,s

 

[D Skelton]

So all JB's in ceiling voids are accessible if ONLY the people living in the house hadn't wanted that nasty floor covering stuff, lino, fitted carpet, laminate etc. Honestly inconsiderate buggers these customers/general public, lol.

Well my view is that anything fitted on top of the floorboards to make them inaccessible would in turn make the JB inaccessible. But if the floorboards are bare or only loosly carpeted over then that would make them perfectly accessible.

 

[telectrix]

nick, i hope you are celebrating, mate. did you watch the match?

 

[telectrix]

Well my view is that anything fitted on top of the floorboards to make them inaccessible would in turn make the JB inaccessible. But if the floorboards are bare or only loosly carpeted over then that would make them perfectly accessible.

not disagreeing mate. was always acceptable to fit JBs under floors. but the IET somehow have to justify bringing out new regs. books for us to buy every few years.

 

[sjm]

That was my point. If the carpet is loose, I would argue that would make JB under the screwed square of floorboard accessible but if it was fitted, or if laminate was layed, in my opinion, that would make it inaccessible.

Isn't the definition of a loose carpet a RUG.
However the fact that the floorboards may very well be covered with a different covering at any point in the future, making JB inaccessible, must surely mean that all connections within ceiling voids must be of a permanent and maintainance free variety.

 

[Adam W]

So all JB's in ceiling voids are accessible if ONLY the people living in the house hadn't wanted that nasty floor covering stuff, lino, fitted carpet, laminate etc. Honestly inconsiderate buggers these customers/general public, lol.

The problem being that you have no control over what trendy floor covering the customer will opt for in the future - you could tell them the floor needs to be 'accessible' but the chances are your words will be forgotten after everything's been 'working fine for years' or the house has been sold.

 

[D Skelton]

not disagreeing mate. was always acceptable to fit JBs under floors. but the IET somehow have to justify bringing out new regs. books for us to buy every few years.

I know mate

The problem being that you have no control over what trendy floor covering the customer will opt for in the future - you could tell them the floor needs to be 'accessible' but the chances are your words will be forgotten after everything's been 'working fine for years' or the house has been sold.

Isn't the definition of a loose carpet a RUG.
However the fact that the floorboards may very well be covered with a different covering at any point in the future, making JB inaccessible, must surely mean that all connections within ceiling voids must be of a permanent and maintainance free variety.

Good points, hadn't really thought about that. Mind you, you can't make everything future proof can ya? As long as my work complies with regs at the time of install, I'm happy! Happy as a cowboy