Labour Manifesto

[Zerax]

Allegedly yes, but for 9 years?, and then the Tories can suddenly find billions of pounds because there is a General Election coming. Was it £350 million a week could go to the NHS by coming out of Europe painted over the battle bus? Another one of Boris and his cronies porkies. I'm not saying Labour are much better these days but lets not pretend the Tories are going to lead us to some kind of non existent Utopia.
I do think the wider general problem is total lack of trust in all of our politicians which is why a lot of people look for alternatives.

I'm a firm believer in the old adage that... the mere desire to be an MP should automatically preclude you from selection !

 

[MDJ]

There must be some that will vote labour, or all leckies right wing.

Of corse, either that or Boris the lying clown

 

[Midwest]

Of corse, either that or Boris the lying clown

I've almost always voted Tory, coming from where I do. Boris is not one of my favourite leaders, but it seems he is the only prepared to carry out Brexit.

Watched a small snippet of a Sky election piece, talking to die hard Labour supports in some coal mining community, one where 70% voted in favour of Brexit. From the people interviewed (yes I know that can be fixed), the Labour voters may choose to vote for the Brexit party. Which personally, I don't think that would be much good for that community, but it sort of sums up, what this election is all about.

 

[MDJ]

I've almost always voted Tory, coming from where I do. Boris is not one of my favourite leaders, but it seems he is the only prepared to carry out Brexit.

Watched a small snippet of a Sky election piece, talking to die hard Labour supports in some coal mining community, one where 70% voted in favour of Brexit. From the people interviewed (yes I know that can be fixed), the Labour voters may choose to vote for the Brexit party. Which personally, I don't think that would be much good for that community, but it sort of sums up, what this election is all about.

Boris may get the withdrawal agreement done my friend but it will take years to sort out the deals and will be the start of the break up of the UK, the only way forward IMO is a customs union and single marketJMO

 

[Midwest]

Boris may get the withdrawal agreement done my friend but it will take years to sort out the deals and will be the start of the break up of the UK, the only way forward IMO is a customs union and single marketJMO

I'm not very political, is that a Remain thing, my dear?

 

[snowhead]

The U.K is going to break up with or without Brexit.
Nicola is going to sort that,, well she seems to think she is.

 

[MDJ]

I'm not very political, is that a Remain thing, my dear?

? yes sweetie

 

[Midwest]

? yes sweetie

Stop calling me your 'friend' then chutchy face

 

[MDJ]

Stop calling me your 'friend' then chutchy face

? okay then

 

[andyb]

Boris may get the withdrawal agreement done my friend but it will take years to sort out the deals and will be the start of the break up of the UK, the only way forward IMO is a customs union and single marketJMO

Which basically is Labour's policy.

 

[MDJ]

Which basically is Labour's policy.

Yes I believe so

 

[Midwest]

Which basically is Labour's policy.

I thought Labour's policy was steered by Reddit. Least Tories are a bit more upmarket and use The Sun.

 

[Pete999]

There must be some that will vote labour, or all leckies right wing.

I'm right wing but this Labour lot are, can't count or don't know what wing they are on waste of space, just like I told the Labour Candidate when he came around trying to curie favour with me a few nights ago, JC and DA in control the mind boggles"""""""!!!!!!

 

[andyb]

I'm right wing but this Labour lot are, can't count or don't know what wing they are on waste of space, just like I told the Labour Candidate when he came around trying to curie favour with me a few nights ago, JC and DA in control the mind boggles"""""""!!!!!!

Right wing Pete, that is until you need socialism. Then you're happy to embrace it.

 

[Baddegg]

The biggest problem in this country is we don’t have a lot of choice.....I could find a couple of things I agree with in most parties manifest but I certainly don’t agree wholeheartedly with any of em, I don’t trust a single politician full stop. But because of the voting system we either vote for the 2 main parties or waste a vote on another party that can’t gain a majority and so are faced with another 4 years of bickering and bribes (DUP) when we face austerity.....what’s the point.....

 

[plugsandsparks]

If you look at Labours manifesto and if you are Ltd, like me, then you may end up with an effective income tax rate of 41% eek. That would be a lot of *issed off small businesses.

 

[MDJ]

If you look at Labours manifesto and if you are Ltd, like me, then you may end up with an effective income tax rate of 41% eek. That would be a lot of *issed off small businesses.

? Sorry, how does that work out

 

[Zerax]

Right wing Pete, that is until you need socialism. Then you're happy to embrace it.

I'm trying to think of a time when anyone might need socialism... I'm struggling. Ah ! maybe if I'm an MP on £75k pa and a gold plated pension ? I can see that working...

 

[andyb]

I'm trying to think of a time when anyone might need socialism... I'm struggling. Ah ! maybe if I'm an MP on £75k pa and a gold plated pension ? I can see that working...

Never been ill? school? unemployed? needed an ambulance? you don't know anybody who's needed the safety net of social security? can't work through illness? If the worst happened to you Zerax and you could not work, we'd look after you. You'd get all the hospital treatment you need, and we wouldn't take your house or bankrupt you for the medical bills. Even the bankers in 2008 suddenly embraced socialism when for better or for worse we bailed them out.

 

[Midwest]

When I read socialism, I think of Karl Marx and or communism. I know it’s not quite that, but that’s how I think of it, as opposed to it being the opposite of capitalism.

Whilst I’ve no truck with those greedy bankers, even hardened socialists know they have to have capitalism for their regime to exist. Money, it’s what makes the world go round.

Bit deep, so early in the morning. And I only came down, to get some pills for this stinking cold.

 

[andyb]

When I read socialism, I think of Karl Marx and or communism. I know it’s not quite that, but that’s how I think of it, as opposed to it being the opposite of capitalism.

Whilst I’ve no truck with those greedy bankers, even hardened socialists know they have to have capitalism for their regime to exist. Money, it’s what makes the world go round.

Bit deep, so early in the morning. And I only came down, to get some pills for this stinking cold.

The opposite of capitalism is communism not socialism Midwest, Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto.

You can be a capitalist and a socialist. I’m a capitalist, I run my company and try to make a profit. I’m also a socialist. I believe in capitalism, just not untrammelled capitalism, it needs checks and balance to avoid the worst excess of capitalism.

In my opinium the opposite of socialism is individualism.

Now you’ve probably given me your bloody cold MW.

 

[Midwest]

The opposite of capitalism is communism not socialism Midwest, Karl Marx wrote the communist manifesto.

You can be a capitalist and a socialist. I’m a capitalist, I run my company and try to make a profit. I’m also a socialist. I believe in capitalism, just not untrammelled capitalism, it needs checks and balance to avoid the worst excess of capitalism.

In my opinium the opposite of socialism is individualism.

Now you’ve probably given me your bloody cold MW.

Not sure; I’ve read a few pieces which describe capitalism as the opposite of socialism. I’ve also read that Marx ‘was most important theorist of socialism’.

The difference between communism and socialism is close; socialists argue amongst themselves, on the extent and kinds of chattels that society should own, and the way it’s controlled.

JC suggests nationalising Open Reach, and provide free broadband for all; is that a necessity to for all, and a National resource.

Sorry about the cold by the way.

 

[snowhead]

JC suggests nationalising Open Reach, and provide free broadband for all;

Dianne Abbott must have been in charge of the Calculator on that day cause it's never going to happen.

Even if Labour seized all the assets of Openreach, the same as their conference proposal for Private schools, so getting Openreach for free, they'd have to pump Billions in each year to expand the network to all and to cover the costs of running it.

Virgin would either be sqeezed out altogether with the loss of Cable T.V , leaving SKY with a Monopoly or Virgin would have to pay a commercial rate for use of what was their own cable network upping the cost of CATV to existing subscribers, probably more than the "free" Broadband.

 

[Midwest]

That must be Utopian socialism then

 

[plugsandsparks]

? Sorry, how does that work out

Give me a few minutes i'll cut and paste the manifesto and show you the math
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"Labour would, in contrast to the official baseline which has corporation tax at 17% from April 2020,30  Reintroduce a small profits rate for firms with profits under £300,000 a year  Raise the main rate of corporation tax to 21% from April 2020, 24% from April 2021 and 26% from April 2022.  Keep the small profits rate at 19% in April 2020, rising to 20% in April 2021 and 21% in April 2021 "

Above is CT

"Labour will tax capital gains at the same level as income tax and abolish the lower income tax rate for dividend income. "

So, if they are keeping basic rate income tax at 20%, then its either 26% CT plus 20% of 74% = 40.8% or for small profits (that figure i am worried about) its 21% CT plus 20% of 79% = 36.8%, add in the benefit of Tories cut to CT and leaving dividend alone, equals 36.8% plus 3%, say around 40%

Then i have to add in the effects of the financial transaction tax on my pension, second home tax and marriage transfer tax, which i think will add another £4500 to my tax bill.

BTW - Its all there in black and white, its not as if Labour are trying to hide how they will take all your money.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Funding-Real-Change-1.pdf

 

[mattg4321]

No point in getting too worried about Corbyn's fantasy grey book. He hasn't a cat in hells chance of a majority so it will never be used.

 

[plugsandsparks]

No point in getting too worried about Corbyn's fantasy grey book. He hasn't a cat in hells chance of a majority so it will never be used.

Corbyn has a growing army of supporters, not surprising since how the living standards of young people have been decimated in the last 15 years.
I do fear it, in fact , i am off on my hols early Jan, not sure yet whether i am coming back... lol - its no joke that the major current opposition party has such radical change in mind and i can well understand its attraction

 

[Midwest]

Looks like Labour have more designs on nationalisation;
‘They are also planning to take train companies, Royal Mail, the water industry, the big six energy firms and BT Openreach into public ownership'

 

[Paul L]

I wonder why people cant see the reason why Labour think it is a good idea in theory to nationalise these things though. We have had years of headlines concerning money grabbing bosses, late trains, putting profits before people. rubbish infrastructure etc. etc.so they are just saying we are going to attempt to actually put people first. What a novel idea that is!!
Don't get me wrong, the reality is probably a bit different to that but at least the sentiment is better than the selfish society i believe we are becoming.

 

[DPG]

I wonder why people cant see the reason why Labour think it is a good idea in theory to nationalise these things though. We have had years of headlines concerning money grabbing bosses, late trains, putting profits before people. rubbish infrastructure etc. etc.so they are just saying we are going to attempt to actually put people first. What a novel idea that is!!
Don't get me wrong, the reality is probably a bit different to that but at least the sentiment is better than the selfish society i believe we are becoming.

Perhaps people remember the days of British Rail.

 

[andyb]

"Labour will tax capital gains at the same level as income tax and abolish the lower income tax rate for dividend income. "

So, if they are keeping basic rate income tax at 20%, then its either 26% CT plus 20% of 74% = 40.8% or for small profits (that figure i am worried about) its 21% CT plus 20% of 79% = 36.8%, add in the benefit of Tories cut to CT and leaving dividend alone, equals 36.8% plus 3%, say around 40%

Not quite getting this Plugs, probably me. But CT is a tax on profit, you could just pay yourself the money direct and pay tax and NI as normal, plus employers NI, then that would not be subject to CT.
Or am I wrong?

 

[Paul L]

Perhaps people remember the days of British Rail.
Source URL: Labour Manifesto - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/labour-manifesto.180767/page-3

I'm playing devils advocate a bit. I would tend to agree that public ownership was far from perfect and isn't necessarily always a good thing. There did seem to be a lot of strikes lol. What i am getting at mostly is the sentiment that in my view Labour are trying to think about the many,not the few, perhaps not in exactly the right way but thinking it all the same. This is socialism to me.
I have no issue at all with people making money, any country and economy needs wealth creators but when that comes at the cost of cutting great swathes of the population out of the equation then there is something wrong.

ps. I absolutely respect everyone's opinion and their right to express it, good job we are not all the same

 

[littlespark]

? yes sweetie

Get a room, you two

 

[plugsandsparks]

Not quite getting this Plugs, probably me. But CT is a tax on profit, you could just pay yourself the money direct and pay tax and NI as normal, plus employers NI, then that would not be subject to CT.
Or am I wrong?

With a Ltd company, you have a few options in how to deal with CT, NI, PAYE, divvy, depending on your circumstances and shareholders, there lies an optimum solution,
For me, as the Ltd co is not my sole source of income, it is as i have described. If i pay myself £XX000/year this is not optimal and my effective tax rate is again much much higher. It may be OK for some ???

 

[mattg4321]

Corbyn has a growing army of supporters, not surprising since how the living standards of young people have been decimated in the last 15 years.
I do fear it, in fact , i am off on my hols early Jan, not sure yet whether i am coming back... lol - its no joke that the major current opposition party has such radical change in mind and i can well understand its attraction

If you think the commie terrorist sympathiser might get a majority you should put some money on it mate!

Can get 33/1.

 

[plugsandsparks]

If you think the commie terrorist sympathiser might get a majority you should put some money on it mate!

Can get 33/1.

Ha - Way ahead mate, William Hill 20/1

 

[Andrew Hunter]

Just in case anyone is actually looking for the content of the labour manifesto.. you need to be aware of this.

Tories set up fake Labour manifesto website as party's disinformation spree continues

Conservatives pay Google to promote labourmanifesto.co.uk website in search results

www.independent.co.uk

Sorry Andy I have read far too much of that rubbish on F/B. it is spin by labour supporters (Not Labour party ) to put out there that anything that is questionable about the labour manifesto as fake report put out by the conservatives. just as they put out the results of elections and referendums are manipulated by the Russians.
Yawn please not on here I thought all us electricians were intelligent enough to spot bull ---- and evaluate the information available to come to a logical and intelligent solution,
[automerge]1576103781[/automerge]

Allegedly yes, but for 9 years?, and then the Tories can suddenly find billions of pounds because there is a General Election coming. Was it £350 million a week could go to the NHS by coming out of Europe painted over the battle bus? Another one of Boris and his cronies porkies. I'm not saying Labour are much better these days but lets not pretend the Tories are going to lead us to some kind of non existent Utopia.
I do think the wider general problem is total lack of trust in all of our politicians which is why a lot of people look for alternatives.

Paul,
As I have asked many a people who spout this garbage. Please show me where (anywhere in the world let alone on the side of a bus) it was stated that £350 bn would be spent on the NHS.
the trouble is the figure! If it had read 350bn Euro or £250bn for the NHS would the disgust be as such.
The fact is Chinese whispers and an unwillingness to correct an error put forward without clear explanation by a junior member for fear of looking inept has put them in this position.
The true figure was as I have said 350bn euros not pounds sterling which at the time translated to £250bn and never ever was it stated that this figure would or infact could be spent on the NHS more over it was put as "Lets fund or NHS"
So no it wasn't a lie it was a mistake as they apologised for the next day they just did not elaborate what the error was, in my opinion another error of judgement.

 

[Andy78]

Sorry Andy I have read far too much of that rubbish on F/B. it is spin by labour supporters (Not Labour party ) to put out there that anything that is questionable about the labour manifesto as fake report put out by the conservatives. just as they put out the results of elections and referendums are manipulated by the Russians.
Yawn please not on here I thought all us electricians were intelligent enough to spot bull ---- and evaluate the information available to come to a logical and intelligent solution,

I'm not sure what you are saying isn't true. The conservatives did set up a website called labourmanifesto.co.uk. It is still up.

I was merely pointing out if anyone was looking for the labour manifesto, it wouldn't be there, and using the news article as evidence to that.

 

[Andrew Hunter]

I'm not sure what you are saying isn't true. The conservatives did set up a website called labourmanifesto.co.uk. It is still up.

I was merely pointing out if anyone was looking for the labour manifesto, it wouldn't be there, and using the news article as evidence to that.

So you have actual proof that this site (never said it did not exist) was in-fact set up by the torries and not by some one pretending to represent the torries "PS I have no affiliation with the Tories in-fact I cant stand them just the same as I cant stand any of the rest of the lying ----ers.

 

[Andy78]

So you have actual proof that this site (never said it did not exist) was in-fact set up by the torries and not by some one pretending to represent the torries "PS I have no affiliation with the Tories in-fact I cant stand them just the same as I cant stand any of the rest of the lying ----ers.

It was widely reported in the national press, including both right and left wing biased papers, that the website was created from conservative party origins. Unless you have proof to prove otherwise I will accept that.

It would seem to gel with the conservative disinformation campaign that has been widely proved and acknowledged over the past few weeks.

It would make no sense to me that labour supporters would create a spoof labour manifesto website pretending it was created by the conservatives, when the content of that website is a trouncing and undermining of labour manifesto policies. Why would labour supporters publicly undermine labour policy even if it was part of a deception campaign ?