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Yes and I would say yes to the second question for the simple reason if anything goes wrong and you are not qualified its you that will carry the can.

After all the 2391 is one of the hardest ones to pass

Chris
 
There is no such thing as a Landlords Safety Cert for Electrical Installations as there is for Gas installations.A periodic Inspection Report is the nearest to this ,however as the title suggests it is a"Report"and does not Certify Anything !
If Electrical work is required and completed following recommendations from a P.I.R then an Electrical Installation Certificate Or Minor Electrical Works Certificate is issued which " Certifies" the Remedial work.
Above average experience of Electrical installation work is required in order to be classed as competant to undertake P.I.Rs .....2391 .Qualifications are also desirable, but are not enough on their own !


spark1
 
Above average experience of Electrical installation work is required in order to be classed as competant to undertake P.I.Rs .....2391 .Qualifications are also desirable, but are not enough on their own !


spark1

What is "enough" then? Is there a list of qualifications that are needed, not "desirable" and who decides when someone has above average experience. Whist I agree that all these things are commendable I am finding it difficult to get someone to say what is required legally. Any comments gratefully received.
 
What is "enough" then? Is there a list of qualifications that are needed, not "desirable" and who decides when someone has above average experience. Whist I agree that all these things are commendable I am finding it difficult to get someone to say what is required legally. Any comments gratefully received.

Nothing whatsoever


Things that may have a bearing


Competence
Proving competence in a court
Registration with a scheme
Insurance
Experience
Profile(by being in a scheme)
and most of all a contract off the client

Sorry to be abrupt but
If you are competent you would probably know yourself, and would be confident without requiring or asking for assurance of that competence
If you are capable you will know
 
If you are asking about Legal Status or requirements then the answer is There is None .Anybody can undertake a P.I.R .The only time restrictions apply are if certain criteria is required under a contract or when you are a member of a scheme or association where they will assess you on Experience and Qualification. The Legal situation would come into play if you were asked to prove your competance in court as a result of any litigation against you as a result of claimed incompetance in performing a disputed P.I.R..........YourExperience & Qualifications ,including 2391 would be invaluable in this event,as well as good insurance..........Good Luck !



spark1
 
A landlords certificate is common jargon for a bit of paper that could be given to a landlord that he is satisfied with and others who he presents it to,will also be satisfied with
In the electrical industry there is no such creature
If you were asked to supply a landlord certificate,it can be your judgement or theirs as to what the certificate contains
If you agree on a proper inspection and test then a PIR carried out as per IEE guidance is what should be carried out
If the landlored wants a bit of paper with perhaps only visual observations that will satisfy the licensing authority then that is what the certificate is
PIRs are not regulated and are not stipulated by councils etc mainly through total ignorance of what an inspection entails
That is why it is shameful to see a scheme like the NIC permitting these visual observations to be used and gullibly accepted as proper periodic inspection reports
The industry would be far clearer in what is required if the NIC practised safety concerns instead of advertising those concerns, with little regard to the real life safety issues that they are betraying by permitting these visual inspections certifying them and allowing them to be substituted for a genuine test and inspection
 
Nothing whatsoever

Things that may have a bearing

Competence
Proving competence in a court
Registration with a scheme
Insurance
Experience
Profile(by being in a scheme)
and most of all a contract off the client

Sorry to be abrupt but
If you are competent you would probably know yourself, and would be confident without requiring or asking for assurance of that competence
If you are capable you will know

Thank you for your reply. I agree with everything you say BUT the last bit is where the problem lies. Whilst I might think I am competent in order to earn a shilling or two, others might not. To date I have elected not to do P.I.R.s because with only ten years as an electrician in dwellings only but no 2391 yet I consider myself "not competent". I know of others with even less experience or quals doing reports in order to get work and "legally" there appears to be nothing wrong with that. Oh, and by the way they are members pf a Part P scheme!
 
Gundy, please re-read the post. It clearly states there is no such thing.

But thanks for bumping this up - i missed it the 1st time around.

Des, as good a post as i`ve read. Top job!
 
electricAl, Of course i have read.but you havent read well because i wrote " i am from istanbul". so i am not biritish citizen. in that case, can i have landlord certificate. thanks..

i think, yours is sheep`s
 
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Oh, you`re from Istanbul.

In that case, no, you still can`t have a Landlords Certificate. That is because in the UK no such thing exists (as stated)

As for your last comment, it may translate wonderfully well in Turkish but makes no sense atall in English i`m afraid (along with most of your post)

& just for your info, I read the post perfectly well, thankyou very much.

Good day to you Sir
 
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At my last comment, I didnt want to be rude and my english is not good so i am sorry, electricAL...

Just i wanted to know that i could have the landlord certificate or P.I.R..Because I want to live in London


Thankss...
 
Gundy, your English is a whole lot better than my Turkish :) Credit to you for your language skills.

No harm done. It`s a friendly forum & the majority try hard to help.

Yes, P.I.R. `s are sometimes referred to, by non-electrical persons, as a `Landlords Safety Certificate` or similiar, although they are actually Periodic Inspection Report`s.

Just for clarity, are you asking what would you require to issue such certificates? or do you need a PIR doing on a property?

Regards, Al
 
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Yes electricAL.. But I dont still know PAT,PIR,PART P,2391.. What are the difference between them... I read on web

But I cant understend the difference and which one(s) i can write the certificate on..

if you help me, i will be happy :)

from now thak you...
 
Thank you for your reply. I agree with everything you say BUT the last bit is where the problem lies. Whilst I might think I am competent in order to earn a shilling or two, others might not. To date I have elected not to do P.I.R.s because with only ten years as an electrician in dwellings only but no 2391 yet I consider myself "not competent". I know of others with even less experience or quals doing reports in order to get work and "legally" there appears to be nothing wrong with that. Oh, and by the way they are members pf a Part P scheme!

If you possess 10 year experience and you know how to test, then you should be able to start doing PIR on domestic properties, everyone has to start some where, it a report on the quality of an electrical installation, so are you saying if asked to inspect an electrical installation you could not tell the difference between a safe installation and one that is not.

If you can test go do 2391 course, ensure you have a working knowledge of BS7671:2008, professional electrician, wiring matters ESC etc read them all and then start doing PIR, as previous person have stated in a court of law you would be asked what qualification you possess, what experience, etc you would be asked to discrible what action/ why you undertook X in a certain way, your replies would inform them whether you were competent or not, read Electrical safety council pamplet on PIR, do you not know any experienced electricians how do PIR that you can go to for advice.

Finally the Electricity at work 1989 defines competance as person who possess technical knowledge, practical experience as well the ability to correctly use the test equipment and perform their duties in a safe manner.

Is this that you.
 
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If you've been sparking for 10 yrs, you must have filled out installation certs, PIR is not very different.

Competent person,page 22 regs book.
 

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