New licenses?????

[Risteard]

technically in any electricians house no circuit is required to be on an rcd as you are trained.

Not true. It specifically does not apply to domestic premises.

Also I'm not sure what you mean about BS7671 "exceeding" the Electricity at Work Regulations.

It simply states that compliance with BS7671 is LIKELY to achieve compliance with the Electricity at Work Regulations.

 

[ian.settle1]

The only thing I heard a few months ago was that JIB (ECS) cards may become a legal requirement, i.e. a licence. If that was to be done I would be quite happy about it, to be honest.

There is no merit in them setting up another scheme as a licence, however.

A lot off people will be moaning if JIB run it as unless they have NVQ 3 they won't get a electrician grading only improver that is why a lot off people are not getting a ECS card from them

 

[Risteard]

A lot off people will be moaning if JIB run it as unless they have NVQ 3 they won't get a electrician grading only improver that is why a lot off people are not getting a ECS card from them

I presume the grading wouldn't necessarily be required. But in fairness the logical thing to do would be the NVQ or its successor to qualify, unless Industry Assessed routes or whatever are open to the applicant.

 

[ian.settle1]

I presume the grading wouldn't necessarily be required. But in fairness the logical thing to do would be the NVQ or its successor to qualify, unless Industry Assessed routes or whatever are open to the applicant.

If your not graded then how else could it be used as a license to say your an electrician?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Could be....but then nothing would surprise me,this government are constantly thinking of new ways to screw more money out of us and have total control of everything.
I can see how this would work,existing courses passed will not qualify,bring in a new qualification everyone has to pass...KERCHING!!
Licence issued for a fee...KERCHING!!!
Renewable every year with a refresher course every two years....KERCHING...KERCHING...KERCHING!!!!
More money screwed from the working bloke to keep all those labour voters ,who have never done a days work in their lives, in the manner they have grown accustomed to....

This is roughly what they do in Australia, it seems a fairer set up to me, what we pay in Licence fees we get back by not having to be in a Part P club.

Also in Aus if you are not a Grade A Electrician you cant buy fittings etc, the sheds are not allowed to sell them to Joe public.

Personally i think youve been fed a load of crap, but it would get my vote.

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

 

[Notsosmart]

we are cucified in this country for trying to make money
i should have done plastering - van - trowel - plaster - job done

Bish-bosh give me the dosh ~ Loadsamoney!!

The only thing I heard a few months ago was that JIB (ECS) cards may become a legal requirement, i.e. a licence. If that was to be done I would be quite happy about it, to be honest..

That is more or less true now, as most regulated siteds require CSCS (or ECS), to enforce it domestically would require resources and man-power the government has not the wit nor wisdom to provide.

There is no merit in them setting up another scheme as a licence, however.

True but as Ian has said the JIB need to stop Navel gazing and give more help to new trainee's coming through, and also speed the process of issuing cards.

This is roughly what they do in Australia, it seems a fairer set up to me, what we pay in Licence fees we get back by not having to be in a Part P club.

Also in Aus if you are not a Grade A Electrician you cant buy fittings etc, the sheds are not allowed to sell them to Joe public.*

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

*A great Idea; but lets face it Corgi/gas safe has been in force in the UK for years yet the sheds still sell gas fittings.

 

[Guest123]

Do a search for Grade A Electrician Australia, and look at the criteria required, i bet some of us would struggle, i know i would.

I dont think anyone could meet all 66 different requirements....

 

[pennywise]

The more regulated and the more closed shop we can make the trade, the more we can charge, you only have to look at gas fitters to see the potential reward. The extra cost of training and testing would all be covered in the rate rises surely.

 

[Notsosmart]

I dont think anyone could meet all 66 different requirements....

Back to college for me if I ever decide to become an Antipodean.

 

[Guest123]

I been looking into it for a while.......not easy.

 

[stevey1983]

its all about money, having a licenses doesnt mean anything, take a look at all the bad dangerous drivers out there with licenses or even all the people who drive without one. Anyway how would this be policed? so many people out there doing part p work when they shouldnt and get away with it. Also in all my time of being a sparky i have never ever once been asked to prove what qualifications i have or if im insured to carry out the work. Most of the public have never heard of Part P and you would be surprised at how few even know what gas safe is either. If this is true which i doubt very much then i will not be getting one, i will carry on as i am and doubt anyone will be none the wiser

 

[Guest123]

It's all got to start with the sheds......if Joe Public cant get his mits on electrical gear he cant do the job. Simples.

 

[bugsy]

It's always about money, If they were to license our trade and enforce it it would be a good thing but that will never ever happen

 

[martysparky]

If B and Q sells d/lights with instructions that have no mention whatsoever about insulation effects what chance do we have of them pulling the plug on joe public buying and botching. Joe saves OUR money and make the government more money. What a cash cow...

But then again, if they did pull the plug surely those retail taxes plus the licence would be more beneficial to the Gov and us????

Shouldn't the scheme be the licence???

 

[Phil]

makes me laugh the new electrafix and plumb fix that will only sell to trade, built onto the screwfix counter? yeh thats going to stop them buying there electrical bit`s and bobs. i dont have a problem with b and q selling boards but you should have to have some sort of trade card to buy them. the electrafix idea in concept of proving you are competent was a good idea if all the rest fallowed we might have a better chance but somehow i dont think it`s ever going to happen

 

[lloyd1980]

Not true. It specifically does not apply to domestic premises.

Also I'm not sure what you mean about BS7671 "exceeding" the Electricity at Work Regulations.

It simply states that compliance with BS7671 is LIKELY to achieve compliance with the Electricity at Work Regulations.

The electricity at work regulations are a statutory document
in order to stay within the law you need to prove that you have at least met the EAWR
BS7671 is a non statutory document and is a recgnised ACOP (acceptable code of practice)

what this means is that if you follow bs7671 then your are exceeding the statutory requirments of the Electricity at work Regulations (Law)

if you wired to the 16th edition today you would not be breaking the law,
we obviously comply with 7671 as to be a part of the competant person schemes requires it (nic etc) but if you were informing LABC yourself then 16th is not illegal

if you read the EAWR there is nothing about most circuits being RCD protected
the only thing that comes close is regulation 12 - Means for cutting off the supply and for isolation
there is no mention of an RCD

people dont seem aware of this and whether we like it or not are forced into doing a new regs course and purchasing a book for the slightest change

it makes me wonder if any of the board of directors of the IEE have any fingers in electrical equipment manufacturing and stand to gain financially from these new rules - IE increased demand for expensive RBCO's sometimes over 20 quid a pop

it makes you wonder

 

[Notsosmart]

The electricity at work regulations are a statutory document
in order to stay within the law you need to prove that you have at least met the EAWR
BS7671 is a non statutory document and is a recgnised ACOP (acceptable code of practice)

what this means is that if you follow bs7671 then your are exceeding the statutory requirments of the Electricity at work Regulations (Law)

if you wired to the 16th edition today you would not be breaking the law,
we obviously comply with 7671 as to be a part of the competant person schemes requires it (nic etc) but if you were informing LABC yourself then 16th is not illegal

if you read the EAWR there is nothing about most circuits being RCD protected
the only thing that comes close is regulation 12 - Means for cutting off the supply and for isolation
there is no mention of an RCD

people dont seem aware of this and whether we like it or not are forced into doing a new regs course and purchasing a book for the slightest change

*it makes me wonder if any of the board of directors of the IEE have any fingers in electrical equipment manufacturing and stand to gain financially from these new rules - IE increased demand for expensive RBCO's sometimes over 20 quid a pop*

it makes you wonder

* Carefull Lloyd your becoming as cynical as me!

Lets face it there was nothing wrong with the 16th, it is as though there is change for change sake.

Whilst I agree with what you are saying in principle, as you have said working to the IEE regs mean that you meet the requirements of EAWA, with the litigation sharks, er i mean lawyers, out there if you are not working to the 17th could they twist it to show that you are not meeting this statute?
Ok there are plenty of installations out there that Noah helped install but that means, as competent persons, it is our duty to point the short-comings out to the customer who also has a right to refuse remeidial work, (our nannying big brother hasn't cottened on to this legislative loop-hole yet!)

 

[Spudnik]

there is no requirment at the moment for RCD's to be on EVERYTHING

I know.

It was a sweeping statement i was making.

 

[ian.settle1]

If B and Q sells d/lights with instructions that have no mention whatsoever about insulation effects what chance do we have of them pulling the plug on joe public buying and botching. Joe saves OUR money and make the government more money. What a cash cow...

But then again, if they did pull the plug surely those retail taxes plus the licence would be more beneficial to the Gov and us????

Shouldn't the scheme be the licence???

Not everyone does house bashing what about electricians who are maintenance electricians in industry or electricians who work for companies who only do commercial or industrial installations??????

 

[sparky1502]

i know that summit skills are charging things for the college starters they are doing away with the c&g 2330 and bringing in a diploma level 3 which includes a level 3 nvq and am2 and 3 years at college which will screw up these training centres as they cant offere the nvq...but according to sorces electrical installation is no longer on the goverments approved course scheme as a vital course and thus the funding is minial....o the joys of a democaracy