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Discuss NO cpc lighting 18th edition in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Went to fit new light fittings in a loft conversion today.
The existing ceramic half moon uplights were installed using 2 core flex buried in the plaster going I know not where!
I've come across 2 core systems in old peabody trust estates that where complient as long as double insulated fittings were installed, not extended and a warning label fixed to the fuse box.
Questions:
Are the old 2 wire lighting systems, providing insulation etc checks out, still legal retrospectevly under the 18th?
I know I cant extend a "cpc less" system. Am i going to have to tell my customer that this wiring is non-complient and needs to be replaced?
I know the answer but hoping for straws to clutch!
Cheers
Steve
 
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Risteard

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Arms
Esteemed
The ones you found might not have been unsafe with all the measures you mention, but it's not correct to state that they were compliant.
 

telectrix

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
why not connect you new lights int socket circuit via SFCU?
 

snowhead

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Mentor
The 2 core flex May Not go very far back into the wall and join to T&E.
Does the flex look like it came with the uplights?
 

littlespark

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Advent Win
You’ll possibly find a buried connector block in the plaster, wrapped with tape.
Check the other lights and switches for cpc’s.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
The 2 core flex May Not go very far back into the wall and join to T&E.
Does the flex look like it came with the uplights?
No unfortunately, they didnt come with lights.
It's a 'designer' styled flat with the ceiling removed and the roof boarded out and immaculate mat white paintwork. I have no access to any possible JBs, switchlines etc without chopping away chunks of the ceiling. The least disruptive thing i could do would be go the SFCU route and use wireles switch relays (Lightwave RF or similar) . Any other ideas?
Cheers
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
You’ll possibly find a buried connector block in the plaster, wrapped with tape.
Check the other lights and switches for cpc’s.
Might be the case but its a gamble and my customer wont like it. The other option would be to use double insulated and sign of an exception but that's changed under the 18th hasnt it? No a great solution anyway when the next cowboy installs metal light fittings!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
The ones you found might not have been unsafe with all the measures you mention, but it's not correct to state that they were compliant.
No, I meant the peabodyones are compliant as long as they remain in good order because they were allowed at the time of installation.
Theytremained complient as long as class 2 fittings are used.
I dontthink I can do that with this installation because it wasnt complient when installed.
 
T

The Ghost

Of course there is the RCD requirement. Wonder if it applies to extending lighting circuits.
 
T

The Ghost

It is for AC final circuits supplying luminaires. However is that retrospective applying to circuits installed to earlier BS7671 editions. There is no specific statement on the in the 18th edition. Practically that means if someone wants an extra light we now have to put in RCD as in sockets. This means most will baulk at the extra cost and get someone in who will do it without RCD. And in the case of the OP with no cpc an interesting conundrum.
 

Risteard

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Arms
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Extending a circuit is not retrospective action though - you have new wiring which must now be adequately protected as per the requirements of BS7671:2018.
 
I had a similar issue putting a bathroom fan in and NAPIT technical confirmed there has to be an R1R2 on any accessories you install. Ended up running a 2.5 single up the side of the house and into the loft.

My test if unsure is how confident I'd be explaining myself to a sarcastic lawyer in court.
 

Risteard

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Arms
Esteemed
I had a similar issue putting a bathroom fan in and NAPIT technical confirmed there has to be an R1R2 on any accessories you install. Ended up running a 2.5 single up the side of the house and into the loft.

My test if unsure is how confident I'd be explaining myself to a sarcastic lawyer in court.
A cpc not mechanically protected needs to be a minimum of 4mm^2.
 
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