No earth in lighting circuit what next?

[Elliott96]

Im sure this has probably been asked before in this forum but ive just upgraded a fuseboard today and found no earth in the lighting (two core). Obviously the next thing to do would be to tell the customer either rewire or change everything on that circuit to class 2 fittings and accessories, but in this case the customer didnt want to go ahead with either.... what should i do? Cutting the circuit out would be abit extreme?

 

[peterhyper]

Absolutely nothing you can do. As long as you have a clear record of what you have informed the customer and stuck a warning on their consumer unit (i always take a picture when I've done it) and if they choose to not have a rewire and keep their lovely metal light switches and fittings then that's up to them.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Is the circuit RCD protected?

 

[snowhead]

Section 10;

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1203/best-practice-guide-1-issue-3.pdf

 

[Wilko]

You've placed a circuit in service that has no cpc from origin?

 

[Elliott96]

Absolutely nothing you can do. As long as you have a clear record of what you have informed the customer and stuck a warning on their consumer unit (i always take a picture when I've done it) and if they choose to not have a rewire and keep their lovely metal light switches and fittings then that's up to them.

Thats what i thought but what warning label can i use? Only found no provisions for earth do not replace insulated light fitting and accessories with metal ones. But that doesn’t really make sense seeings as they are already metal!

 

[Elliott96]

Is the circuit RCD protected?

Yes it is! All the circuits are....

 

[Elliott96]

You've placed a circuit in service that has no cpc from origin?

Yep... would you of left them with no lights?

 

[Andy78]

Yep... would you of left them with no lights?

Rather than energising a circuit with no earth and connected metal fittings ? Hard to say, what does your risk assessment say ?

Basically you've dropped a ------- and should have checked before the CU change and given the customer options at that stage.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Thats what i thought but what warning label can i use? Only found no provisions for earth do not replace insulated light fitting and accessories with metal ones. But that doesn’t really make sense seeings as they are already metal!

That’s the label you should use.
If they ignore the advice, that’s their look out.

 

[Elliott96]

Rather than energising a circuit with no earth and connected metal fittings ? Hard to say, what does your risk assessment say ?

Basically you've dropped a ------- and should have checked before the CU change and given the customer options at that stage.

Come on you cant tell me you drop every fitting in the house before a fuseboard change???

 

[Elliott96]

That’s the label you should use.
If they ignore the advice, that’s their look out.

Cheers! So should i put it on the cert as a departure, put the sticker on and get out?

 

[Andy78]

Come on you cant tell me you drop every fitting in the house before a fuseboard change???

I make an assessment of the system at the quoting stage and quote accordingly. This evening I dropped 8 light switches because a homebuyer survey had flagged up the possibility of no cpc on the lights.
The regs require you to make sure the system is suitable for the alteration before you do the work. Fundamental principles.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have a customer who has no CPC on their lighting.
Thought she’d change the plastic switches for some brushed stainless steel ones.
Told me she’d earthed it.
What she did, is put a fly lead from the back box to the face plate.

 

[westward10]

Cheers! So should i put it on the cert as a departure, put the sticker on and get out?

You have a serious problem here. You have replaced a consumer unit and energised a circuit which does not incorporate a cpc which supplies class I fittings. It is not a departure and there is no notice you can put in place which is supported by BS7671.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It’s a dilemma.
Should you walk away from what is potentially a dangerous situation.
Or should you do the work which will make the situation safer?

 

[westward10]

It’s a dilemma.
Should you walk away from what is potentially a dangerous situation.
Or should you do the work which will make the situation safer?

There is absolutely no way he can leave it and walk away.

 

[Elliott96]

It’s a dilemma.
Should you walk away from what is potentially a dangerous situation.
Or should you do the work which will make the situation safer?

Obviously i want to make the circuit safe but without the customer being compliant there is nothing i can do, there is still more works to do in the property so ill just cut it out after ive taken payment.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It’s a dilemma.
Should you walk away from what is potentially a dangerous situation.
Or should you do the work which will make the situation safer?

There is absolutely no way he can leave it and walk away.

He’s changed the CU and added RCD protection, which has made the situation safer.

With my customer, I just went with her to B&Q, helped her choose a plastic light switch then replaced her stainless steel switch for her.

 

[Starjack]

Should never have swapped the board without doing proper testing before, no stickers or excuse will get you out of it, you dropped a major one and need to put it right whether it cost you or not.
The amount of people that do something as stupid as this baffles me, all about the quick buck.