Periodic inspection

[Jako13!]

Hi guys I’m not carrying out a periodic but have seen in a house a lighting circuit with no CPC which I know was acceptable at the time of install but the circuit contains class one equipment. The circuit is RCD protected but would this be classed as a C2 as the RCD can’t be relied on for fault protection due to there being no earth path?
Thanks guys

 

[Farmelectrics]

yes i would give it a code 2.

 

[timhoward]

Have a look at best practise guide 4 (free download) as it mentions this scenario.
Opinions vary about how to code this. A forum search will give you lots of reading material!

 

[littlespark]

I’d say code 2.

it would take another fault for it to become code 1, but changing all the accessories would take it to 3

 

[timhoward]

I missed the class 1 equipment bit. Defo C2 for me.

 

[brianmoooore]

C2 definitely if class 1 fittings present. C3 if the class 1 are replaced by class 2.

 

[westward10]

You can't use Class II as a means of protection in a dwelling.

 

[brianmoooore]

You can't use Class II as a means of protection in a dwelling.

If you're installing new. This is 20+ year old wiring, that was installed to the regs. at the time.

 

[westward10]

If you're installing new. This is 20+ year old wiring, that was installed to the regs. at the time.

Neither here nor there by suggesting Class II parts you are suggesting a means of protection.

 

[brianmoooore]

This lot agree with me: What are Class 2 Double Insulated Lights? | The Lighting Superstore - https://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/appliance-class-2-double-insulated

 

[DefyG]

C2 for me and C3 if class 2 fittings.

 

[westward10]

This lot agree with me: What are Class 2 Double Insulated Lights? | The Lighting Superstore - https://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/appliance-class-2-double-insulated

Must be right then the font of all knowledge.

 

[brianmoooore]

Class 2 fittings have no connection for a cpc, therefore the presence of a cpc at the fitting is irrelevant, as it will not be connected to anything accessible, or any part of the fitting at all. Therefore it is not "potentially dangerous - urgent remedial action required" - the definition of C2.
It does not comply with current regulations, however, so C3 it is.

 

[littlespark]

I think the argument here is, that if there is no cpc, but there’s metal fittings that need a cpc, then changing the fittings is not the answer…. C2, potentially dangerous. Rewire the circuit.
Changing the fittings is a bodge solution

if there is no cpc, and the fittings are already class II, then that’s C3- improvement.

 

[brianmoooore]

EICR is like a car MOT test. It is a snapshot of here and now.
If there are class 1 fittings present, then on that EICR, it is coded C2. If the fittings are then replaced with class 2, and a new EICR is performed, then it's C3. What there may have been as part of the installation yesterday is of no concern to someone carrying out an EICR today.

 

[brianmoooore]

Changing the fittings is a bodge solution

Of course it's a bodge, and my notes would recommend rewiring the circuit, but it's a bodge that makes the installation satisfactory. We can't make up coding to suit what we'd recommend the installation to be.

 

[DefyG]

Changing the fittings is a bodge solution

Sometimes you have to do what's necessary to make it 'satisfactory' for an EICR.
Ideally we would all like to re-wire to make it 'fully compliant' but this not always practical.

 

[Jako13!]

Thank you guys your comments have been very helpful! Just one more what are are duties and if we are carrying out an EICR and we spot a C2, I know for a C1 we’d make safe as there is a danger present but a C2 it’s only present if a fault occurs. Just trying to get my head clear for my 2391-52?

 

[timhoward]

Thank you guys your comments have been very helpful! Just one more what are are duties and if we are carrying out an EICR and we spot a C2, I know for a C1 we’d make safe as there is a danger present but a C2 it’s only present if a fault occurs. Just trying to get my head clear for my 2391-52?

I'm not trying to be funny but out duty is to inspect and test according to the agreement with the client. If we find C1's we need to exercise judgement about whether to isolate or negotiate an instant fix (sometimes the rest of the inspection needs to be delayed to accommodate this). If we find C2's then by definition they are still one fault away from instant danger and the person receiving report has the responsibility to arrange the necessary work.
Of course we can quote for that work, and sometimes clients prefer to say "fix as you go" within reasonable constraints.
Does that help, or confuse further?!
All the best for your exam.