RCD protection

[Gavin watt]

hi all

conducting eicrs in amusement arcades usually nothing is RCD protected.

sockets no RCD protection in general is c3 but when would this become c2 in this instance as it is an existing installation decades old

 

[davesparks]

The age is irrelevant, you are carrying out the report to the current version of the regulations.

 

[Gavin watt]

The age is irrelevant, you are carrying out the report to the current version of the regulations.

Ok , so all socket outlets upto 20a should be RCD protected if not it’s c2 ,

 

[DPG]

Ok , so all socket outlets upto 20a should be RCD protected if not it’s c2 ,

Don't forget we're on the requirements of the 18th edition now.

 

[Gavin watt]

yeah I got that , over thinking it but it’s a public used place as well as employees of the building so not sure which sockets should be RCD protected

 

[Dannyg8810]

Ok , so all socket outlets upto 20a should be RCD protected if not it’s c2 ,

Up to 32a not 20a

 

[Strima]

C3 unless potential for use with outdoor equipment then C2. Depending upon installation method etc.

 

[Gavin watt]

C3 unless potential for use with outdoor equipment then C2. Depending upon installation method etc.

What if accessible to public/ ordinary persons

 

[telectrix]

i might be inclined to give it a C2 ifused for portable appliances, e.g. vacuum cleaners.( you know how thick cleaners can be ). otherwise a C3.

 

[DPG]

Up to 32a not 20a

That's what I was hinting at in post #4.

 

[Gavin watt]

That's what I was hinting at in post #4.

Can you explain further

 

[DPG]

Can you explain further

Dannyg already has.

 

[Gavin watt]

Dannyg already has.

So all/every socket upto 32a should be RCD protected and if not it’s a c2

 

[Risteard]

So all/every socket upto 32a should be RCD protected and if not it’s a c2

Your report - your decision on the severity of the non-compliance. But it must be coded.

 

[Strima]

What if accessible to public/ ordinary persons

You have to assess the risk on site, we can't do that for you.

If sockets are positioned for gaming machines with little or no access then C3. General use sockets for use by staff potentially a C2 but can be swapped out for point of use RCD socket-outlets.

If pointed at with a big flashing arrow saying "free electricity here" then C2.

 

[Gavin watt]

Your report - your decision on the severity of the non-compliance. But it must be coded.

Ok.... I’m looking for a more direct actual guide on this it’s not as black and white as you say ofcourse it is to be coded and I don’t agree it’s just the inspectors decision as there is a correct way to inspect and code.
are we going on the basis that all sockets to be RCD protected upto 32a during a eicr even though the installation is compliant to older regulations without RCD protection

 

[Strima]

Unless there is a risk to life and property etc then you can only recommend upgrading to current standards, you cannot use coding to force customers to upgrade.

 

[westward10]

Ok.... I’m looking for a more direct actual guide on this it’s not as black and white as you say ofcourse it is to be coded and I don’t agree it’s just the inspectors decision as there is a correct way to inspect and code.
are we going on the basis that all sockets to be RCD protected upto 32a during a eicr even though the installation is compliant to older regulations without RCD protection

It is the inspectors decision. There is no hard fast rules on how to Code, this is the only area BS7671 makes a Coding reference to, that being a minimum Code 3. This is not suggesting if must be Code 3 because this is down to the inspectors judgement and experience.

 

[Gavin watt]

It is the inspectors decision. There is no hard fast rules on how to Code, this is the only area BS7671 makes a Coding reference to, that being a minimum Code 3. This is not suggesting if must be Code 3 because this is down to the inspectors judgement and experience.

Don’t agree with that , if it’s a situation that warrants RCD protection the inspector can’t just say c3 and that’s the end of because he decided , if the inspector is wrong he is wrong and his coding would be wrong also

 

[westward10]

Don’t agree with that , if it’s a situation that warrants RCD protection the inspector can’t just say c3 and that’s the end of because he decided , if the inspector is wrong he is wrong and his coding would be wrong also

Whether you agree or not that is the way of things. Are you new to doing this kind of thing.

 

[Gavin watt]

Whether you agree or not that is the way of things. Are you new to doing this kind of thing.

No not new been doing it for years , just a grey area to me of when we should class no RCD to sockets a c2 when it’s a building that’s older and open to public

 

[westward10]

No not new been doing it for years , just a grey area to me of when we should class no RCD to sockets a c2 when it’s a building that’s older and open to public

The age of an installation isn't overly relevant. Code 3 would be a statement of fact that socket outlets do not have additional rcd protection, a recommendation of improvement. Code 2 you are implying a situation warranting urgent attention, if you can justify this with evidence that such a situation is pending then that is acceptable.

 

[Gavin watt]

The age of an installation isn't overly relevant. Code 3 would be a statement of fact that socket outlets do not have additional rcd protection, a recommendation of improvement. Code 2 you are implying a situation warranting urgent attention, if you can justify this with evidence that such a situation is pending then that is acceptable.

So the situation where historically no RCD protection has ever been in place say a 30 year old install and we now have public accessing socket outlets for use and for use of machines plugged into the sockets would that not require RCD protection

 

[westward10]

The fact public have access again is not really relevant they are no different to employed staff they all share the same risk.

 

[JBW175]

Have a look at this, hope it helps.

 

[davesparks]

So the situation where historically no RCD protection has ever been in place say a 30 year old install and we now have public accessing socket outlets for use and for use of machines plugged into the sockets would that not require RCD protection

Historical requirements are irrelevant, you carry out the report to the current version of bs7671.

As such General purpose socket outlets without RCD protection would be coded a minimum C3, however if the lack of RCD protection is considered to be potentially dangerous then a C2 would be appropriate.

If the sockets in question are supplying power to fixed, or not easily movable, equipment such as amusements, are not readily accessible etc etc then I would suggest that maybe they wouldn't need RCD protection at all. And then following suitable assessment of the risks no code may be necessary.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Gavin, all you can do is assess whether or not, how likely there is and the severity of a potential danger. The guide to coding hints on this (see post 25#) by indicating what type and use of equipment warrants how you code it. Its your call to determine the potential danger. If you feel certain sockets in the installation warrant a C2 then you code them accordingly otherwise the rest would be a C3.
You can then advise the client to what is the best method of rectification should this be required.

 

[Timbo]

And if they look like this, C1.

 

[telectrix]

View attachment 53444And if they look like this, C1.

stick some tape over it and then it's a C2.