Safety! Am I really that old???

[jimmy mustard]

These days most large companies only care about how H&S reflects on them, to the point where they will give bonuses for not having a LTA, or going to extreme lenghts to wiggle out of any blame post accident.
I've spoken out against safety bonuses been given where i work as no one should be paid to work safely. If anyone at my workplace has a LTA everybody looses their safety bonus, and this leads to the injured person having to come in to work to prevent a lost time accident.

 

[PEG]

everyone has their own opinion, but with an opinion, knowledge and language like that I can only assume you are one of those who work in the world of H&S and benifet greatly from the nonsense it incurs. It's certainly not the real world and can only assume your not a self employed spark. (No offence intended)

...Well i am self-employed,and have been,more or less continually,for a great many years.

Youngscud nailed it,with the "application" of said directives...added to the popular urban myth-sphere,which engenders anger and frustration,as above.

On occasion,the application of these directives,can have unintended consequences,both positive and negative.

I will give you an example...on a large site,years back,i was involved with a steel erecting company,not long after all drawings came with an annotation "All access by MEWPS".

The steel fixing lads,all trundled around site in various platforms and booms,and the company responsible for their well-being,decreed that ALL operatives,whether working or transporting the machines,were to clip their safety harnesses,whilst in the cages...whatever.

Non conforming was stated as a grounds for immediate dismissal.

So one fine day,two lads,were trundling along a site road,transporting a large diesel boom (JLG 80HX) to the job area.

One lad was clipped on to the basket anchor. The other was not.

Basket was 4-6' off the ground,and they pulled to one side,to allow a wagon past. Machine slid down a hole,bucket flipped up,and both were jettisoned.

The lad NOT clipped on,flew out,landed on a pile of earth,shocked and dirty...

The lad clipped on,flew out to the extent of his harness lanyard,then whipped in to the boom section,and shattered his pelvis. A right mess.

The up-shot of this tale,is the lad who was NOT clipped on,escaped discipline,as his brief,(yes,it got to that...) argued that his client,as the person in the moment,risk assessed his own actions,deemed it safer NOT to clip on,and was vilified by the end result.

Now,obviously,this real-life example holds a variety of chances,but demonstrates that even best practice,can be deviated from,IF you are able to justify your actions.

I operate in several industries that have quite onerous safety requirements,but can find myself exempt,from all of them,if they hamper repair,adjustment or demonstration. Also,any emergency situation,can over-ride such requirements.


...But do i think safety training,equipment and legislation is wrong?

Not at all :sailor:

 

[MikeL1]

Have only read about half of the replies and good banter from both sides, but you want to try working in the Offshore industry (some of you maybe have done).
Safety is priority, we RA before and during every task, and I mean every task no matter how small or menial.
Basically we are our own and everyone else's safety officer onboard, we all look after and look out for each other, every day.
I feel safer on a North Sea Production Platform than I have done on previous construction sites.

So to answer the question 'am I too old for safety' if you feel it's all a pain in the a**e then you need to get out asap, because your worst case scenario is you may injure someone else due to your lack of safety awareness, the rules are in place to not only protect you but everyone around you, think about it.

 

[PEG]

Moving whilst extended,is normal practice. Most of the larger self-propelled booms and scissors have this as a function.

Some have limited speed or a cut-out height,but moving at working height,is normal.

What has occurred over the last 30 years,is an increasing reliance,on safety features such as envelope management systems,and fail-safe functions.

In an attempt to make plant "idiot-proof",they have,on occasion,allowed idiots,to be pilots.

The old-school methods,of bringing operators through the ranks,with sound experience,and time in the saddle,has gone.

The modern way,seems to be short intensive courses,followed by short supervised experience,then reliance on equipment safety features and peer involvement.

....But,if a hair-dresser can do a short course,and inject Botox in yer birds' forehead,i don't see why an arsey 22 year old,who can't speak properly,shouldn't pilot a £200,000 30 tonne machine....what can go wrong? :dizzy2:

Just seen the big strut jib crawler,on luffer,go over,in Manhattan. Looked to be unloaded,and impossible to know,but crawler undercarriage went over at same time,so maybe not catastrophic failure...

Could be computer said yes...one reported as deceased,very sad.

 

[shanky887614]

Have only read about half of the replies and good banter from both sides, but you want to try working in the Offshore industry (some of you maybe have done).
Safety is priority, we RA before and during every task, and I mean every task no matter how small or menial.
Basically we are our own and everyone else's safety officer onboard, we all look after and look out for each other, every day.
I feel safer on a North Sea Production Platform than I have done on previous construction sites.

So to answer the question 'am I too old for safety' if you feel it's all a pain in the a**e then you need to get out asap, because your worst case scenario is you may injure someone else due to your lack of safety awareness, the rules are in place to not only protect you but everyone around you, think about it.

its not so much that we find it a pain in the arse.

on certain sites it would be safer to do the install a certain way but typical multinational h&s pencil pushers say no, its all about minimising risk whats good in one situation isnt good in another.

in a boiler house it would be safer for people to go down to boots, shorts and t-shirt but certain company policies will say you need boots,trousers/boiler suit, gloves, hard hat and glasses, you need to adapt policy depending on risk factors including temperature

the only way to access a lot of places now is via ladder because of poorly laid out designs.


we have had it before on a site where guys podiums were an inch below the celing grid and they were standing on the top bars of the podium as no one was allowed steps or ladders

 

[YoungScud]

Whats a "risk assessment"?

Is that a serious question? If it's not, sorry, i don't get the joke.

 

[YoungScud]

I searched around for 'ban on ladders' and one of the pieces I found was from a while back.

Window cleaners banned from using ladders - Telegraph

Now, here we had Nick Clegg, washing windows at a Salvation Army building, no doubt to show solidarity with the workers, reporting a ban on ladders, the worker being asked satating that 'someone' had stopped their use. That someone turned out to be the head of the cleaning company. He stated, "Anything that will reduce the risk for our workers, we will do. Several window cleaners die every year, and more are seriously injured, falling off ladders."
"As well as reducing risk, the poles increase productivity. They're much safer, and much quicker – why wouldn't we want to use them?"

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the decision appears to have been based on accident stats (something wrong with that?) and productivity (or that?).

None of this si about H&S law. It's, as I said, about how we interpret it. I understand concerns, but if we remove the protection of law, we know from bitter experience that safety of workers and the public will suffer. We lareday know there are many unscrupulous employers who flout the law now. There can only be more if it's removed.

 

[vxwestie]

Is that a serious question? If it's not, sorry, i don't get the joke.

yes, it was a joke.....
i learnt what one was several years ago on a course I was forced to go on. Although I've never done one, nor seen one since !

 

[YoungScud]

yes, it was a joke.....
i learnt what one was several years ago on a course I was forced to go on. Although I've never done one, nor seen one since !

So you don't ever take a good look at your working environment, to see if there are any threats to your safety?

 

[Spoon]

So you don't ever take a good look at your working environment, to see if there are any threats to your safety?

I don't think vxwestie was implying that. I think he is just on about the paperwork variety.
We all do risk assessments all our lives. From my 5 year old who tries it on with me, seeing how far she can go before being she gets told off, to when you are very old, and farting without following through....