Socket outlets on lighting circuit

[South Spark]

I'm to install a customer supplied light fitting - it's an Ikea job with a transformer inbuilt into a plug.

As she wants it to replace an existing mains powered spot light fitting I was thinking to put a socket outlet onto the wall using the existing lighting wiring mount the light next to that and plug it in.

On one hand the worst that could happen is that someone could get a ladder out unplug it and plug summat in that would trip the 6A MCB but on the other I'm help feeling it's got to be against regs.

 

[telectrix]

get the customer to take it back and buy the right type of fitting.

 

[Outspoken]

I'm to install a customer supplied light fitting - it's an Ikea job with a transformer inbuilt into a plug.

As she wants it to replace an existing mains powered spot light fitting I was thinking to put a socket outlet onto the wall using the existing lighting wiring mount the light next to that and plug it in.

On one hand the worst that could happen is that someone could get a ladder out unplug it and plug summat in that would trip the 6A MCB but on the other I'm help feeling it's got to be against regs.

This springs to mind...

 

[telectrix]

and this.....

- - - Updated - - -

This springs to mind...

i always said tonto was a crow indian, not an apache.

 

[South Spark]

Steady on .. just trying to come up with a solution.

 

[Adam W]

By the sound of it that would look awful - the idea is you're supposed to be able to see the light fitting and not the wiring, never mind a socket with a wall wart plugged into it.
Then of course there's always the possibility of the customer plugging the vacuum cleaner in there, as usual.

 

[South Spark]

Aesthetics and amusing photos of cowboys aside - is it against the regs?

 

[Fin170]

Get the specs off the transformer then buy a proper one to replace it

Or sling the lamps and tranny and exchange for leds & driver (if applicable)

Option three is to go back to ikea and tell them to stop selling such crap

 

[Adam W]

Is the customer going to be able to unplug the light and plug the vacuum cleaner in?
You could fuse it down to 3A but I still think putting a 13A socket on a lighting circuit is asking for trouble.

 

[eddielarge]

I might have read this wrong , but if you want to surface mount why cant you cut plug and put on a 5amp plug top and install 5amp socket, it will still look bad but no chances of someone plugging into it

 

[Adam W]

I might have read this wrong , but if you want to surface mount why cant you cut plug and put on a 5amp plug top and install 5amp socket, it will still look bad but no chances of someone plugging into it

The transformer is a 'wall wart' type, with the transformer built into the 13A plug.

 

[South Spark]

The plug is the transformer! It's a permanent wall mounted fitting but with a cord and permanent moulded plug/transformer.

If I cut the plug off then I'll have to find an identical transformer and wire a junction box next to it - hardly any prettier.

It was a regs question really

 

[telectrix]

if you label the socket " lighting only", i suppose you might just get away with it. i remember once being called out to a nearly new install where the sparks had fitted 3 1363 sockets on the lighting for stand-alone table lamps, on a dimmer, customer couldn't understand why the hoover ran slow and the lights dimmed.

 

[Robotstar5]

Can you extend the cable between lamp and transformer so it can be plugged into a "proper" S/O?

 

[Marvo]

What kind of light fitting is it? If it has a transformer/plug as you describe I'm guessing it might be portable. Can you post a link to an image?

 

[Andy78]

This sounds ridiculous.
Is the client wanting to switch the supply to the socket so this wall light works from a wall switch ? If so, she has bought the wrong type of light. Tell her to buy a normal one.

Has this wall mounted light got a switch on the fitting or down the flex somewhere ? if so then use that as switching and supply a low level socket from the nearest socket circuit.

any ELV lights that I have ever fitted have had the transformer built into the fitting base so you can fit them normally. Does Ikea think a flex trailing over the wall is a "feature" ?

 

[South Spark]

This is the beauty in question.

IKEA PS 2012 LED wall lamp - white - IKEA

 

[telectrix]

hideous. has this woman got no taste?

 

[South Spark]

Steady on .. it's the mother in law.

 

[Marvo]

I'd class that light as a portable appliance, it isn't permanently fixed, it just sits on a slide bracket. I'd say it would be plugged into a socket off a socket circuit rather than a socket on the lighting circuit. Putting it on the lighting circuit is likely to cause problems if they install dimmers for example. Just for interest I see it's disposable, according to the pdf the LED's in it aren't replacable......so much for environmentally friendly.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Super glue the transformed plug onto a trailing socket and then run the cable into a flex outlet.

 

[Guitarist]

As already mentioned, label the socket as "Lighting only" and get on with it. Nothing against the regs, and sometimes the only solution.

 

[44ALLAN]

hideous. has this woman got no taste?

Steady on .. it's the mother in law.

Was that her walking with the sheriff ?...........I agree........hideous.
Not long before the daughter looks like that too ..god forbid.............gud luck mate

 

[plugsandsparks]

Came across something similar just the other day on a new kitchen. Display lights powered from combined tx/plug. When i said to the fitter i'll just put a JB on top of the wall unit, he then showed me the tx. I rolled my eyes and a socket went on above the wall unit. What a crap solution all round. Worst case someone climbs up on top of the wall unit and plugs the kettle in which trips the breaker.

 

[Adam W]

It looks like it's a semi-permanent fitting - you fix it to the wall, plug it into a 'normal' socket and run the cable in that mini-trunking they recommend, then when the light breaks or fashion changes you simply rip it off the wall and throw it in the bin without all the lights tripping out when the vacuum cleaner gets used. That seems to be what the manufacturer recommends and therefore is in accordance with the regs, so doing something other than that, ie putting a socket on the lighting circuit, would be against the regs.
Is that the answer you were after?
Alternatively you could just do what you like to make life easier.

 

[Outspoken]

All Joking aside the safest way to achieve the aim would be to install a switched fused spur on the nearest ring and the output from this used to supply a high level unswitched single socket at the correct location for this wall wart. Fuse the spur down to 3A, label accordingly and have the socket engraved with "To be used for Lighting only"

The above would ensure full Regs compliance and mean you had taken all reasonable steps for safety and design consideration, what some numpty does at a later stage if they ignore the warning is not your concern.

 

[telectrix]

All Joking aside the safest way to achieve the aim would be to install a switched fused spur on the nearest ring and the output from this used to supply a high level unswitched single socket at the correct location for this wall wart. Fuse the spur down to 3A, label accordingly and have the socket engraved with "To be used for Lighting only"

The above would ensure full Regs compliance and mean you had taken all reasonable steps for safety and design consideration, what some numpty does at a later stage if they ignore the warning is not your concern.[/QUOTE


FAR,FAR, too sensible for this forum. go and stand in the corner of the classroom until playtime.

 

[Outspoken]

All Joking aside the safest way to achieve the aim would be to install a switched fused spur on the nearest ring and the output from this used to supply a high level unswitched single socket at the correct location for this wall wart. Fuse the spur down to 3A, label accordingly and have the socket engraved with "To be used for Lighting only"

The above would ensure full Regs compliance and mean you had taken all reasonable steps for safety and design consideration, what some numpty does at a later stage if they ignore the warning is not your concern.

FAR,FAR, too sensible for this forum. go and stand in the corner of the classroom until playtime.

Here you go then..



But for enjoyment factor and staying on topic!!

 

[telectrix]

are those the new paris fashion burkas?

 

[varilite]

Get a 13A to 5A adaptor and use 5A socket

 

[Crosswire]

Aesthetics and amusing photos of cowboys aside - is it against the regs?

No, it is not. It is very common to see aerial boosters plugged into a socket on the lighting circuit. There is no specific regulation against this.

 

[Adam W]

No, it is not. It is very common to see aerial boosters plugged into a socket on the lighting circuit. There is no specific regulation against this.

Not exactly, in fact you've demonstrated the reason why I'm against that practice - sometimes a socket (should really be a 2A or 5A if anything) is run off the lighting circuit in the loft as a 'way out' when a socket in the loft wasn't allowed for and the upstairs rooms have been decorated so running a socket in properly would be disruptive. The danger is this becomes the norm and people start designing in a socket off the lighting circuit because that's what they're used to.
There is no specific regulation against it, but then the regs don't read like that - there are very few specific regulations against many things.
What the regs do imply is that nothing should interfere with the lighting circuit unnecessarily, which is exactly what a socket is asking for - if there is no socket in the loft apart from the one on the lighting circuit, then that's the one the vacuum cleaner is getting plugged into when it comes for a clearout, which overloads the breaker, which knocks out the lights in the loft and upstairs, leaving the customer to climb over all the junk in the loft and negotiate their way down the ladder in the dark, which is dangerous.

This Ikea light clearly hasn't been designed for an electrician to install, which is why it comes with a 'wall wart' on the cable meaning you can't fish it behind plasterboard, and why they recommend mini trunking to compliment it. You wouldn't design one of these into a new build so why try to accommodate it retrospectively? It is what it is - a DIY add-on.

 

[telectrix]

then that's the one the vacuum cleaner is getting plugged into when it comes for a clearout, which overloads the breaker, which knocks out the lights in the loft and upstairs, leaving the customer to climb over all the junk in the loft and negotiate their way down the ladder in the dark, which is dangerous.


anyone who decides to vacuum the loft either suffers from OCD or is barking mad.

 

[stuartcourt]

then that's the one the vacuum cleaner is getting plugged into when it comes for a clearout, which overloads the breaker, which knocks out the lights in the loft and upstairs, leaving the customer to climb over all the junk in the loft and negotiate their way down the ladder in the dark, which is dangerous.


anyone who decides to vacuum the loft either suffers from OCD or is barking mad.

a clean loft is a happy loft

 

[Adam W]

then that's the one the vacuum cleaner is getting plugged into when it comes for a clearout, which overloads the breaker, which knocks out the lights in the loft and upstairs, leaving the customer to climb over all the junk in the loft and negotiate their way down the ladder in the dark, which is dangerous.


anyone who decides to vacuum the loft either suffers from OCD or is barking mad.

Sometimes it gets beyond the joke though - it's surprising how many cobwebs and dead bluebottles can build up over 80 years or so.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Sometimes it gets beyond the joke though - it's surprising how many cobwebs and dead bluebottles can build up over 80 years or so.

Joking aside I have hoovered a loft for that very reason. And as Stuart said it looked happier as a result!

 

[Silly Sausage]

anyone who decides to vacuum the loft either suffers from OCD or is barking mad.

Hahaha...that's me then!
Had to empty mine out to get free insulation. Decided to vac it out, about 10 big rubble bags of vile black shyte later, one beautiful clean attic. Tidiest place in the house now!

 

[driverman]

Re 13 amp sockets wired off light circuits.......How many 13amp sockets do you see that are wired off light circuits for TV amps in loft spaces? Yes it's wrong..but 1000s's done I bet.



OPPs Just read No.31 Note to oneself!. read all post first lol

 

[Hants-Spark]

Re 13 amp sockets wired off light circuits.......How many 13amp sockets do you see that are wired off light circuits for TV amps in loft spaces? Yes it's wrong..but 1000s's done I bet.



OPPs Just read No.31 Note to oneself!. read all post first lol

If I have to put a socket in the loft then it goes on the ring, new builds or existing. Drop down the aering cupboard if need be but that's what we do.

 

[7029 dave]

that's what I would do!!