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Hi

Trying to sort an argument here, am I right in saying that ALL work including altering existing circuits in commercial and industrial installations requires SPD protection unless a risk assessment is completed.

The only exception would be a direct replacement for maintenance purposes?

Thanks
 
Hi

Trying to sort an argument here, am I right in saying that ALL work including altering existing circuits in commercial and industrial installations requires SPD protection unless a risk assessment is completed.

The only exception would be a direct replacement for maintenance purposes?

Thanks
Yes.
Although the wording is the other way around, you do an assessment to determine if spd is required or not. If no assessment is made then spd must be fitted.

On residential no assessment is required, and spd may be omitted if the customer indicates the cost doesn't justify the cost of consequence

As to ALL work - strictly yes, but generally minor works tend not to be.
 
As to ALL work - strictly yes, but generally minor works tend not to be.
I guess at some point there will be a debate about just where the crossover is:
  • If you were replacing a broken socket or failed lamp, you would probably not modify the CU to include SPD (or anything else, unless some C1/C2 is apparent, like its an outdoor socket and no RCD).
  • Adding a new circuit, would it merit SPD? Maybe at least an disclaimer/risk assessment with the custimer before proceeding without SPD?
  • Putting in a new CU/DB and it is almost certainly going to have SPD included.
 
I guess at some point there will be a debate about just where the crossover is:
  • If you were replacing a broken socket or failed lamp, you would probably not modify the CU to include SPD (or anything else, unless some C1/C2 is apparent, like its an outdoor socket and no RCD).
  • Adding a new circuit, would it merit SPD? Maybe at least an disclaimer/risk assessment with the custimer before proceeding without SPD?
  • Putting in a new CU/DB and it is almost certainly going to have SPD included.
That's the issue/point really, and it applies to all installations, and to all aspects of the regs, not just spd.

Anything new must be to the latest, but that means sometimes a much larger scope of work than the additional bit under consideration.

Where does one draw the line....?

(Answers on the back of a postage stamp)
 
I had a chat to NIC technical about this and they advised if its a client that you have contract with to possibly set up a blanket risk assessment that will base the installation of SPD on the value of the job, so small minor works no SPD, DB replacements and large new installs include SPD. Seems logical to keep you compliant
 
do you want to protect your electrical items from damage yes or no. If they say yes, do they get guarantee and from whom......
I would never suggest a SPD protects (in spite of the name) - Extension leads (with SPD) for example, talk about reducing the potential impact of surges.

Same with SPD, they reduce the possibility of damage due to a surge, not eliminate it.

If you advise a customer that fitting an SPD will "protect your items from damage" then it would be you making the guarantee.
 
Hi

Trying to sort an argument here, am I right in saying that ALL work including altering existing circuits in commercial and industrial installations requires SPD protection unless a risk assessment is completed.

The only exception would be a direct replacement for maintenance purposes?

Thanks
Across the pond as of 2020 edition of the NEC states SPD’s located at the service are required on new builds and service upgrades. Just saying
 
443.4 Overvoltage control
Protection against transient overvoltages shall be provided where the consequence caused by overvoltage could:
(i) result in serious inj ury to, or loss of, human life, or
(ii) result in interruption of public services and/or damage to cultural heritage, or
(iii) result in interruption ofcommercial or industrial activity, or
(iv) affect a large number of co-located individuals.
For all other cases, a risk assessment according to Regulation 443.5 shall be performed in order to determine if protectionagainsttransientovervoltagesisrequired. Iftheriskassessmentisnotperformed,theelectricalinstallation shall be provided with protection against transient overvoltages, except for single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection.
Protection against switching overvoltages shall be considered in the case of equipment likely to produce switching overvoltages or disturbances exceeding the values according to the overvoltage category of the installation, e.g. where an LV generator supplies the installation or where inductive or capacitive loads (e.g. motors, transformers,
capacitor banks), storage units or high-current loads are installed.
 
443.4 Overvoltage control
Protection against transient overvoltages shall be provided where the consequence caused by overvoltage could:
(i) result in serious inj ury to, or loss of, human life, or
(ii) result in interruption of public services and/or damage to cultural heritage, or
(iii) result in interruption ofcommercial or industrial activity, or
(iv) affect a large number of co-located individuals.
For all other cases, a risk assessment according to Regulation 443.5 shall be performed in order to determine if protectionagainsttransientovervoltagesisrequired. Iftheriskassessmentisnotperformed,theelectricalinstallation shall be provided with protection against transient overvoltages, except for single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection.
Protection against switching overvoltages shall be considered in the case of equipment likely to produce switching overvoltages or disturbances exceeding the values according to the overvoltage category of the installation, e.g. where an LV generator supplies the installation or where inductive or capacitive loads (e.g. motors, transformers,
capacitor banks), storage units or high-current loads are installed.
Thanks, yes, that's the one I was thinking about.
 
Although in a way I do think it's laid out poorly, the wording is clear, but I believe many people just read the bullet points leaving the rest, yet it is the rest which is most applicable.

I think it should be worded similar to this:

443.4 Overvoltage control
Protection against transient overvoltages shall be provided where the result of risk assessment according to Regulation 443.5 determines protection against transient overvoltages is required.

If the risk assessment is not performed, the electrical installation shall be provided with protection against transient overvoltages.

Note: For single dwelling units where the total value of the installation and equipment therein does not justify such protection, such protection may be omitted.

And 443.5 should go something like:

Protection against transient overvoltages shall be provided where the consequence caused by overvoltage could:
(i) result in serious injury to, or loss of, human life, or
(ii) result in interruption of public services and/or damage to cultural heritage, or
(iii) result in interruption of commercial or industrial activity, or
(iv) affect a large number of co-located individuals;

irrespective of the result of the risk assessment described following.....

Essentially the exact same words, and meaning, just less prone to lazy reading.
 
Each year the UK, Ireland and the surrounding seas typically experience 200,000 to 300,000 lightning counts. A heavy thunderstorm day can experience as many as 10,000 but on exceptional days more than 50,000 can occur, as happened on June 28, 2012 when there were 64,000 strikes - the highest ever recorded.13 Aug 2020
 

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