Suspended ceiling - how do you run lighting calbles ? ? ?

[mikex79]

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Hi I need to run cables in a suspended ceiling (grid made of aluminium tees and mineral fiber ceiling tiles, suspention wires are fixed directly to the concret ceiling so there are not wooden beams that I could clip the cables to) the luminaires are already fit so what I need to do is just run the cables. What I have always seen was twin and earth PVC cables laid directly on the ceiling tiles and grid but I just have a feeling that this practice is not right there is something that is telling me that if there is an insulation fault even due to cable rubbing the main beam and tees the whole grid will become live.
My question is if there is any special method of suspending the cables so they will not touch the metal grid od should I clip them directly to the concret ceiling and just drop the cables to the luminaires? do the grid have to be earthed?
all suggestions would be much appreciate

 

[irishsailor]

I would not suggest just running the cables straight on the tiles! Would recommend you try and clip as best you can. Irish

 

[Sparky-Tom]

Hi,

Im not in the commercial sector, so I dont have any experiance of this sort of thing? But how about conduit mounted on the girders/ the concrete ceiling (Im assuming there is a concrete ceiling) and then use Kliks fo each of th lghts?

Just off of the top of my head, although I dont know if this is excepted practice?

 

[scotsparky]

Wire it up in Conduit,Wire armour,Trunking whatever to one of these or simmilar

Kilk - Lighting Distribution System Hager


Then flex drops to the fittings.

 

[matt456]

you should be looking at a hilti type nail gun and cable fixings just tack the cables on to the floor section above. This is what everyone is doing now. Very easy and very quick

 

[mikex79]

you should be looking at a hilti type nail gun and cable fixings just tack the cables on to the floor section above. This is what everyone is doing now. Very easy and very quick

the main ceiling above is a solid concret ceiling so nailing with a hammer and clips is not that easy but i have not tried a nail gun though

 

[scotsparky]

sounds rough i still have a bit of pride in my job. Besides what do you do if you want to change the layout of the lights?? with my method its unplug move lights then plug in.

 

[mikex79]

Wire it up in Conduit,Wire armour,Trunking whatever to one of these or simmilar

Kilk - Lighting Distribution System Hager


Then flex drops to the fittings.

do you mean to lay trunking, conduit etc directly on the tiles and grid or fix it to the mainconcrete ceiling?

 

[scotsparky]

Fix to the ceiling

 

[matt456]

sounds rough i still have a bit of pride in my job. Besides what do you do if you want to change the layout of the lights?? with my method its unplug move lights then plug in.

All the big companys do it, if you want to make money you have to throw it in unfortunately the days of hyper neat working that is not going to be on show is over. at least in commercial anyway. If you think thats rough you want to have a look above the ceiling in some shops!!!!!
im working at a school for bk's i will take a couple of photos of whats above the ceiling there, its a modular installation. Those of you that have worked on this type of install will know what i mean!

 

[fanta]

Why all the fuss, just loosely zip tie the cables to the nearest suspended ceiling hangers fixed into the concrete, at least they're independantly supported above. What the eye does'nt see the heart does'nt grieve !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the cost and time is someone else's problem then light gauge 50mm wide budget tray makes for a neater job.

 

[old dog]

Wire it up in Conduit,Wire armour,Trunking whatever to one of these or simmilar

Kilk - Lighting Distribution System Hager


Then flex drops to the fittings.

done a lot of this tipe of work and the method descibed above is spot
on lashing T&E across a ceiling not really on is it?

 

[scotsparky]

Thanks old dog at least ther are some craftsmen left.

 

[DHES-LTD]

I often go for all round band fixed about every 800mm, very simple and quick to do.

Flexible Conduit, Flexicon, Contractors Packs, All-Round Banding, Fixing Band, Continous Banding.

 

[Guest123]

Hi.

Do you have a design spec for this job?? It will nearly always be trunking+conduit, and tray work. As has been said the only way to go.

 

[mikex79]

Hi.

Do you have a design spec for this job?? It will nearly always be trunking+conduit, and tray work. As has been said the only way to go.

hi lennytheloon what did you mean by design spec for this job?
thanks

 

[Guest123]

Hi.

Has the job been designed by a company or architect, or is it just private to yourself??

Also are you quoting for the job or do you have the job in the bag??

 

[mikex79]

Hi.

Has the job been designed by a company or architect, or is it just private to yourself??

Also are you quoting for the job or do you have the job in the bag??

i am just wiring the job, the buiders already fit the luminaires i have to do the wiring. it's a little grocery shop and i need to give a quote. i have to do a separate circuit just for this lighting but it is alright after all this advices i already know what to do, many thanks for everyone that repilied to my thread

 

[interlude]

done alot of offices with suspended ceilings where we work and we always use plastic conduit and run to klik roses.

 

[sparks1234]

Most of the wholesalers now carry a bang in plastic fixing, drill a hole correct size, bang it in, cable tie your cables up, you can install klik boxes if the budget allows

 

[interlude]

you can also get those sticky pads that allow a cable tie through, pads don't stick to well so worth putting a screw in it also.

 

[sparks1234]

Hi.

Do you have a design spec for this job?? It will nearly always be trunking+conduit, and tray work. As has been said the only way to go.

Sorry to disagree with lenny about nearly always being speced as trunking, I have found more architects want Klik boxes for ease of maintenance but on cost effective and budget conscious jobs many are specifying 3-core and earth (fixed correctly of course)(third core fore emer lights). Though saying that it would always be nice to be able to do it in trunking as it is a nice looking job on completion

 

[scotsparky]

Interlude i would only use those pad in a controll panel or on the back of a door to hold my jacket up never to hold cables up above a ceiling any heat or humidity and they fall off.

Sparks the Architect will ask tell you the position of lights and type its up to the electrical engineer,spark to work out routes,cable syze,type,containment and then offer a price. Architects have grand ideas and rely on the tradesmen to get it done.

 

[interlude]

i have never used them to fix cables to ceilings, walls or anything else. merely a suggestion.

 

[johnnyb]

there is a flat plastic clip, looks like a wing with a screw fixing in the middle, and when you screw to ceiling it puts tension on the plastic wing, and you can pull it down then slide your wires behind it.

 

[electro]

Hi


Not done any wiring in shops before, but in offices its conduit or trunking with Greg roses above false ceiling tiles I know the budget is not as high for a single shop though. Your installation should be independent for the ceiling installation i.e not clipped or fixed to ceiling supports/ties. Not sure of the term kilk fitting but at a guess are they are the same as Greg roses?. I would use Greg roses for maintainability as you can work on a fitting with turning the circuit off important for continuity of business within the shop. I think someone else has mentioned a small light gauge cable tray and I would fit the Greg roses on the underside, sounds good to me. I would also bond the ceiling grid and the cable tray.


Regards

 

[scotsparky]

electro the Klic system is the gregs. They dont use the term in england.

 

[electro]

Thanks Scotsparky

 

[Guest123]

Sorry to disagree with lenny

Dont be sorry, this is what a forum is about. People have different experiences and opinions with different things, how boring would it be if we all agreed all of the time.

 

[Spudnik]

Dont be sorry, this is what a forum is about. People have different experiences and opinions with different things, how boring would it be if we all agreed all of the time.

Agreed.