SWA in drain permissable?

[telectrix]

think it's just common sense here. if the cable is protected from foreseeable damage, i'd say you are good to go. the regs. can't cover all possible scenarios.

 

[dksanders]

I su


All of this conjecture,does not detract from what is basically,going to be the OP's decision.

There will not be regs to approve such an idea,because it is not good practice. Will the world end? Is it worse than a thousand other scenarios we encounter? No.

The OP needs to decide,and stand by that,with concise arguments at the ready,for if the shape of a pear appears...

As a prominent contributor to the IET,Mr Y Oda once remarked..."do,or do not...there is no try..."

I won't do anything that's not right or that I'm not happy is totally safe.

Whilst I am an experienced electrician, I've not encountered this situation/possible solution before hence asking the wider forum members who may have.

If a single reply could show me a valid reason on safety grounds why it shouldn't be done then I won't do it. If however initial objections are countered by sensible suggestions to overcome that objection, to make the solution acceptable to others, then I would be happy.

That it's not best practice I understand and it's not something I've considered doing in the past, but in this instance there really is no other option to getting a cable across the drive.

 

[dksanders]

Alongside rail tracks and also in other places, cables are often run in concrete trenches with concrete slabs as covers.
Then of course there’s those run in ducts and those just buried in soil.
Not sure that any of the above methods are water proof?

The cable itself is waterproof.

 

[dksanders]

As a member of a local Bowls club for thirty years I can tell you that they are as tight as a duck’s rear end and we all know that this is water tight otherwise the poor old duck would sink.
They only like spending money at the bar and then always complain at the prices which are normally half what the pub down the road charges.

Offer them a floodlight on a timer fixed to the wall of their pavilion and if that is not suitable/ possible walk away.

Remember that these people have memories like elephants and will discuss your work with all and sundry. If anything goes wrong you will never hear the end of it and their grapevine network is more efficient that the local press and TV put together.

The clubhouse is too far away from the car park unfortunately.

I am also a new member to this club so walking away isn't an option (especially as they're giving me quite a bit of other work in bringing the place up to date). I had warned them that I wasn't sure if this would be an acceptable solution and would be consulting you guys.

 

[telectrix]

digging a narrow trench in the tarmac, about 1ft. inside from the drain, 12" to 15" deep, would not be too difficult, and a better solution all round. IMO.

 

[Yozza19]

Fit the yellow and black sleeping policemen with the cable runs inside rated at 30 tons some of them if screwed down correctly there is your ansew

 

[davesparks]

Hum ......... this has come up on here so many times - a simple table of recommendations would resolve about 95% of questions

A table of recommendations would cause more trouble than good. Just look at how a simple note that a reading above 200ohms may not be stable has resulted in the majority of electricians misunderstanding this as being the value they should aim for.

 

[davesparks]

SWA is waterproof, however it is not intended for continuous submersion in water.

I remember reading an article about this which concluded that there are better cables than PVC sheathed SWA for use under water.

The major issue is that the slightest bit of damage to the sheath will allow water to get in and rot the armour.

 

[davesparks]

A table of recommendations would cause more trouble than good. Just look at how a simple note that a reading above 200ohms may not be stable has resulted in the majority of electricians misunderstanding this as being the value they should aim for.

What’s funny?
Another example is the model forms and example lists of items which may need inspection as part of an EIC or EICR. These are recommendations in an appendix which are almost universally treated as what must be done, and people keep complaining about being required to fill in these endless tick sheets.

Any suggestions or recommendations in the regulations get treated as a reason to avoid any sort of independent thinking or application of a technical knowledge of thought process.

 

[dksanders]

digging a narrow trench in the tarmac, about 1ft. inside from the drain, 12" to 15" deep, would not be too difficult, and a better solution all round. IMO.

Agreed, but the cost wouldn't be accepted by the committee. They've had to spend a lot recently getting bringing things up to standard and there's not a lot of budget left.

 

[dksanders]

Fit the yellow and black sleeping policemen with the cable runs inside rated at 30 tons some of them if screwed down correctly there is your ansew

I've never used them before but they look like the solution thanks. They'll add an additional £200 to the bill though so may not get accepted. Great suggestion, thanks.

 

[LankyWill]

Agreed, but the cost wouldn't be accepted by the committee. They've had to spend a lot recently getting bringing things up to standard and there's not a lot of budget left.

A rogue from the pub with a disc cutter could cut that tarmac out and fill it with tarmac in a bag for £80 you tight arse.

 

[Dave OCD]

Solar light ?

 

[bigspark17]

You need a proper duct a minimum of 450mm below surface with warning tape above it. Then run SWA through this duct. If budgets would not stand two poles and a catenary then I can not see that budget will stand a proper duct. Tell customer price for doing a proper job with a duct line dedicated to electrical cable. If he will not pay the price for a proper job then walk away.

Where does it say in regs it must be buried 450mm & in a duct???

Fit the yellow and black sleeping policemen with the cable runs inside rated at 30 tons some of them if screwed down correctly there is your ansew

That would be expensive than digging up the road!


Common sense says the swa will be more than safe in that soakaway, use 30mA for additional protection.

 

[dksanders]

Solar light ?

I don't think one would give light for enough hours especially in the winter.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Running any cable in a drainage channel is a daft idea. They need de-silting from time to time and that is likely to be done with a drop scraper with a metal blade. By the time that happens, the cable will be submerged in silt and will go unnoticed, so the blade will be dragged along the channel gouging through the sheath of the SWA. By the time the guy with the scraper notices, the cable will be as waterproof as a tea bag and he'll go nuts. "Could've b****y killed me, live cable hidden in there like that!" Even if the cable is indestructible, it'll stop the channel being scraped clean, would have to go down on hands and knees with a trowel and work round it. Mutual detrimental influence: Cable obstructs maintenance of channel, channel puts cable at risk of damage.

The ramp sounds like a possibility.

 

[Octopus]

I've never used them before but they look like the solution thanks. They'll add an additional £200 to the bill though so may not get accepted. Great suggestion, thanks.

You are best off giving them a price to do it properly.... If they choose to go else where with a cheaper price and a less than suitable solution then that's their lookout.

 

[dksanders]

Running any cable in a drainage channel is a daft idea. They need de-silting from time to time and that is likely to be done with a drop scraper with a metal blade. By the time that happens, the cable will be submerged in silt and will go unnoticed, so the blade will be dragged along the channel gouging through the sheath of the SWA. By the time the guy with the scraper notices, the cable will be as waterproof as a tea bag and he'll go nuts. "Could've b****y killed me, live cable hidden in there like that!" Even if the cable is indestructible, it'll stop the channel being scraped clean, would have to go down on hands and knees with a trowel and work round it. Mutual detrimental influence: Cable obstructs maintenance of channel, channel puts cable at risk of damage.

The ramp sounds like a possibility.

Have you seen my photos, the drain is 3" wide and 2" deep.

 

[bigspark17]

Running any cable in a drainage channel is a daft idea. They need de-silting from time to time and that is likely to be done with a drop scraper with a metal blade. By the time that happens, the cable will be submerged in silt and will go unnoticed, so the blade will be dragged along the channel gouging through the sheath of the SWA. By the time the guy with the scraper notices, the cable will be as waterproof as a tea bag and he'll go nuts. "Could've b****y killed me, live cable hidden in there like that!" Even if the cable is indestructible, it'll stop the channel being scraped clean, would have to go down on hands and knees with a trowel and work round it. Mutual detrimental influence: Cable obstructs maintenance of channel, channel puts cable at risk of damage.

The ramp sounds like a possibility.

Yes as all drains get desilted regularly lol

 

[DPG]

I think other members have covered it pretty well already. Not a good idea at all. I certainly wouldn't put my name to it.