A
Adam W
I believe that is what's know as a 'Morton's fork' - the reality is that they should have researched the course and job prospects more thoroughly before paying out their hard-earned.
As I've said before I think these short courses have their place, and that is for 'electricians' who have the experience and knowledge but never got the bits of paper; I don't count these under the umbrella of the 'Electrical Trainee'.
Presumably the others did the course for a reason - because they thought becoming an electrician in 5 weeks was entirely possible and while some spend 4 years or so at college they had 'the edge' and were able to pay the extra to do it intensively. By signing up to the course they have already proven that they think they can cut corners to get the job done as they want it, which IMO puts them in a bad light straight away.
If they had not already realised they had been 'ripped off' they probably won't like being told that their once chance of a better life has been taken away from them and they are back at square one but minus the redundancy payout.
If you can't get an apprenticeship you can't very well do one.
It doesn't seem right to rip people off (even inadvertently) just because you were ripped off yourself.
I suppose the way forward would be to use the qualifications you already have and work towards a full qualification, by getting whatever 'mate' work you can for the experience, although that might mean taking a pay cut.
Probably not the ideal solution but it's a solution.
O
oldtimer
When I served my time you learned self discipline without even knowing it as your tradesmen would jump all over you because that what you were there for to learn and then Darwins Law kicked and the weak fell by the wayside and yes you got to know the wasters and the guys that you respected and yes its hard to serve your time today as I mentioned earlier. But the premise is the same and my advice is if you want to be an electrician and you are a mature student as it were well you better get dedicated you better get disciplined and get a bit humble with guys on this forum who are trying to partake their knowledge without taking it as a dig if not dont worry Darwins law takes over and you know the rest but if you have a recent green copy of BS7671 or a GN3 guide then drop me a line
N
nick182
formidable response's guys..
i wonder if these guys actually think it is possible to become a spark after a few weeks.. I always saw them as like a bridging course or a "look see" into the trade type thing.
I for one, find that if I have a problem i cant solve regarding electrical work i take as much detail as i can about the installation and get my books out before coming on here. 9 times out of ten i dont need this site but i find the whole networking with other sparks very insightful.
When i completed my college course i was shocked to find that on my very last day that they pushed us all out the door without even saying a thank you or good luck. And i hated that about TS4U.
In all honesty, if u advertised for a job opening and saw a guy who came across as someone who was trying his hardest to do his best would you still look down on him if all you saw was
*level 2 & 3, 2330.
*17th Edition.
*Part P
*pat testing + 1 year self employed and wanting to continue on further????
Do you think there is room in the industry for people like that or will it always be the case of "ur not time served u dont deserve a chance" type thing?
i wonder if these guys actually think it is possible to become a spark after a few weeks.. I always saw them as like a bridging course or a "look see" into the trade type thing.
I for one, find that if I have a problem i cant solve regarding electrical work i take as much detail as i can about the installation and get my books out before coming on here. 9 times out of ten i dont need this site but i find the whole networking with other sparks very insightful.
When i completed my college course i was shocked to find that on my very last day that they pushed us all out the door without even saying a thank you or good luck. And i hated that about TS4U.
In all honesty, if u advertised for a job opening and saw a guy who came across as someone who was trying his hardest to do his best would you still look down on him if all you saw was
*level 2 & 3, 2330.
*17th Edition.
*Part P
*pat testing + 1 year self employed and wanting to continue on further????
Do you think there is room in the industry for people like that or will it always be the case of "ur not time served u dont deserve a chance" type thing?
- Sep 13, 2010
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- If you're a qualified, trainee, or retired electrician - Which country is it that your work will be / is / was aimed at?
- United Kingdom
- What type of forum member are you?
- Electrical Engineer (Qualified)
Think about it another way, in ten years time this forum could be full of the more successful Electrical Trainee who recognised the huge learning curve and grew their knowledge incrementary like we all did.
I don know how much these courses cost but they sound expensive, my view would be :- Do the course, join a scheme, use the tech support, read all their docs, know your limitations and seek advice where apprpriate. I would expect most will end up on the domestic scheme where i think the level of compentance can be achieved most quickly.
Its then a step to do offices and other commercial premises but doable. Sadly i just cannot see how they could get anywhere near industrial, so this leaves industry growing their own and from what i have seen even time served industry specific electricians make basic design mistakes and sometimes there is a level of complacency that creeps in and next thing you know someone like me turns up and hands them a list of 100 remedials.
I have had the fortune to meet and work with some cracking sparkies and what they all had in common was their thirst for knowledge and pride.
I don know how much these courses cost but they sound expensive, my view would be :- Do the course, join a scheme, use the tech support, read all their docs, know your limitations and seek advice where apprpriate. I would expect most will end up on the domestic scheme where i think the level of compentance can be achieved most quickly.
Its then a step to do offices and other commercial premises but doable. Sadly i just cannot see how they could get anywhere near industrial, so this leaves industry growing their own and from what i have seen even time served industry specific electricians make basic design mistakes and sometimes there is a level of complacency that creeps in and next thing you know someone like me turns up and hands them a list of 100 remedials.
I have had the fortune to meet and work with some cracking sparkies and what they all had in common was their thirst for knowledge and pride.
M
mickys86
Ice cream van used to park outside the school at lunch times, used to sell hotdogs and pot noodles! He used to be mobbed! Mind you that was 15 yr ago!
W
wildgoose
I'd really like to take on an apprentice because at times I struggle doing everything on my own. I have about 5 more years left in me before I retire and feel i could teach a young person so many things. When I did my own (4yr) apprenticeship as electrician at Rolls-Royce in the seventies, they had a policy of using their older more experienced tradesmen to train-on their skills to new apprentices before they retired. Many of those old guys were masters of their trade and they taught you things never written in books or in any college.
So why can't I do the same?
1, I'm self employed and like the flexibility to work when and where I need - definitely not a 9am till 5,30pm arrangement.
2, Times are tough now and some weeks I have very little work whilst at other times there's far too much to do. I could therefore not offer an apprentice regular hours.
3,There's masses of competition around here so money wise, I'd struggle to pay a lad some weeks - those really well paying jobs are few and far between now.
4, I get the impression with employment regs, it's not easy to employ peoplewith all the jobsworth regulations in place. Please enlighten me if this is not the case!
Idea!!!!
Wouldn't it be great if a government sponsored scheme was in place to allow us to utilise from a pool of trainees to enable them to gain experience from registered tradesmen who needed short term help. There would of course need to be safeguards to make sure they were not being exploited or put in danger, but surely something could be sorted out. It would be far more beneficial than paying a young person to be out of work.
So why can't I do the same?
1, I'm self employed and like the flexibility to work when and where I need - definitely not a 9am till 5,30pm arrangement.
2, Times are tough now and some weeks I have very little work whilst at other times there's far too much to do. I could therefore not offer an apprentice regular hours.
3,There's masses of competition around here so money wise, I'd struggle to pay a lad some weeks - those really well paying jobs are few and far between now.
4, I get the impression with employment regs, it's not easy to employ peoplewith all the jobsworth regulations in place. Please enlighten me if this is not the case!
Idea!!!!
Wouldn't it be great if a government sponsored scheme was in place to allow us to utilise from a pool of trainees to enable them to gain experience from registered tradesmen who needed short term help. There would of course need to be safeguards to make sure they were not being exploited or put in danger, but surely something could be sorted out. It would be far more beneficial than paying a young person to be out of work.
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O
oldtimer
Great idea full of common sense but will get dingied as the schemies will want a say and input into it making it unworkable but dont let that stop you go to your local college and propose it and the only thing to sort is the insurance debacle plus minimum wage remember the intern debacle
N
nick182
it would definitely help with some of the people coming straight out of college and having to learn on their own initiative in someones else's home. I have suggested in the past to TS4U to set up some sort of mentoring program but i dont think they care too much about what happens after payment tbh.
M
malcolmsanford
What has always amazed me is why is our industry looked at with such rose tinted spectacles.
Not sure if I'm saying this because of all the years I've been doing it, but it seems to me that it is sold by these centres as the be all and end all of things.
There is no longer the money in it as there use to be, there certainly isn't the work there was. Industrial is a little different, but commercial/domestic is virtually dead from the guys I keep in touch with.
Why as the electrical industry been sold as the "sexy" industry it certainly isn't. It's hard graft, often in not very nice conditions, and certainly not that sexy.
The 50K a year for domestic must be today the most unrealistic target you can think of, but still we see the adverts claiming this, unless they are talking turnover rather than profit.
Perhaps the industry is going through the "sexy" stage, and in 5 yrs it will be something totally different. I remember it was Data/Television years ago, every man and his dog wanted to get into this, now it seems to be domestic electrics.
Not sure if I'm saying this because of all the years I've been doing it, but it seems to me that it is sold by these centres as the be all and end all of things.
There is no longer the money in it as there use to be, there certainly isn't the work there was. Industrial is a little different, but commercial/domestic is virtually dead from the guys I keep in touch with.
Why as the electrical industry been sold as the "sexy" industry it certainly isn't. It's hard graft, often in not very nice conditions, and certainly not that sexy.
The 50K a year for domestic must be today the most unrealistic target you can think of, but still we see the adverts claiming this, unless they are talking turnover rather than profit.
Perhaps the industry is going through the "sexy" stage, and in 5 yrs it will be something totally different. I remember it was Data/Television years ago, every man and his dog wanted to get into this, now it seems to be domestic electrics.
P
Paul.M
There is a scheme run by the job center for out of work young people with qualifications. You take one on for 3 days a week free of charge to yourself so you can give them experience in the field. This lasts for six weeks, they still get all their normal benefits etc and at the end of it you will be asked if you are able to employ him/her full or part time? If not you just write a letter of recommendation so they can put it in with their CV.
The small company I subbied to took 3 of these lads on for the six weeks, be warned, trying to show a 18 year old anything on site when they have had zero experience can be very frustrating. Two out of the three lads have got the same quals as myself from the same college so I thought great, I know what they went through to achieve their certs so in the great words of Jeremy Clarkson "how hard can it be?"
I had to show them both how to clip cable for crying out loud! The simplest of tasks became an headache for me. They did not save me any time what so ever, in fact they cost me time so be warned, if you contact the job center and take one of these lads on be prepared to invest a lot of time into their basic training.
Imho a lot depends on the person themselves and you could be lucky and get someone who is on the ball and can add to your business. Give the job center a call and see if they do this in your area.
K
Knobhead
Paul, they don’t have to come from the job centre. The multi-national I worked for would take university under graduates as part of their block release. I had three foisted on me for six weeks each over the years. Brilliant academically, bloody useless practically!
They are now probably making other tradesmen’s life a misery with incompetent design spec’s.
They are now probably making other tradesmen’s life a misery with incompetent design spec’s.
G
GLENNSPARK
A
Adam W
Minus the "Part P" that's basically what I have until I get my 2391 results, so I'd like to think that someone with those qualifications (and experience, although possibly slightly dubious) would at least be offered a mate's position so they could complete their NVQ3.
A potential employer might be more put off by the training provider being something like 'B-A-SPARKY-4QUICK.com' and the dates being within a couple of months rather than 'Bournemouth & Poole College of further education' and the training spanning a couple of years.
A
Adam W
You could.
There are plenty of people on this forum begging to work for free for the experience - you could take on an adult trainee at, say, £7.50ph on a self-employed basis who might be flexible enough to work around your work schedule - you just need to set yourself up to be able to pay sub-contractors with a UTR number. They would probably have transport, tools and a work ethic promoting a positive impression on your customers, and you would be doing them and the whole industry a favour.
5 years or so ago I would have jumped at the chance (I actually did something similar) and I would imagine there are plenty who would now.
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