Young boy killed in pub garden

[telectrix]

I cannot recall ever seeing hobnobs in tins so I calling bo*** ks on this early. Also, even if ever tinned( yeah, right) the variety is so low brow as to warrant only the flimsiest of tins, never suitable for exterior applications.

Now, Fox's Fabulously Chocolaty selection tin is on a whole new level. Both substantial and designed so as not to allow water to settle on horizontal surfaces.

View attachment 63959

The only tin capable of getting away with a C3, I think you'll all agree.

only if the biscuits can withstand current rainfall without going soggy.

 

[UNG]

It is a real shame this pub did not have a diver-by EICR, as having one of those companies' directors in the dock on negligence charges might have shaken up the industry the way it needs.

I doubt it would only be a company director in the dock, the guy that produced the EICR would be there as well as the QS as they all have a duty of care

 

[Mike Johnson]

I do love it when you guys say "QS" to me that means Quantity Surveyor and they all ought to in the dock. ?

 

[UNG]

I do love it when you guys say "QS" to me that means Quantity Surveyor and they all ought to in the dock. ?

QS can have a lot of meanings given we are on an electrical forum I doubt it being Quantity Surveyor

 

[Mike Johnson]

I never though it was in this context, but as electricians are involved in construction the common meaning in the Building Trade for QS = Quantity Surveyor.

 

[loz2754]

Yes sometimes we need to careful when we use acronyms.
BBC for example. Can mean something else completely on some types of forums!

 

[telectrix]

definitely not use an abbreviation for Structure & Materials then?

 

[UNG]

A few years ago my s-i-l was helping her daughter do her homework on garden birds googling "blue ----" brought up something that she didn't expect

 

[Lucien Nunes]

There is often a catalogue of failings behind a fatal electrical incident. In this case the human angle on the case is thrown into stark relief as a young life was lost due to the errors knowingly committed by people with a duty of care. Without wishing in any way to diminish the importance of that, it's interesting to note how far we have come in managing the risks associated with technical hazards. Despite all the electrical equipment in use, millions of appliances, millions of circuits, live 24/7, when something goes wrong badly enough to kill, it can make national press.

I think it's important to use insights like this to home-in on the problem areas. The lad was not shocked by a circuit where the Zs was too high due to failure to compensate for the conductors being warmer during operation than testing. He was shocked because the whole premises' MET was floating free perhaps for a decade. The fine technical details are important, but equally or more important are the basic provisions for safety and doing business in such a way as to root out installations that do not meet them and get them sorted.

We sometimes hear about installations that seem likely to cause harm (e.g. with C1's or borderline C1's) and the only practical advice that can be given is to walk away. Those are the installations where one really needs to double down and find a solution for the customer to get the worst of the risks under control, even at the expense of not working to one's own normal standards of perfection. It's not easy.

 

[Electrics]

We sometimes hear about installations that seem likely to cause harm (e.g. with C1's or borderline C1's) and the only practical advice that can be given is to walk away. Those are the installations where one really needs to double down and find a solution for the customer to get the worst of the risks under control, even at the expense of not working to one's own normal standards of perfection. It's not easy.

I think the big difference with this installation however is that it is a public premises and therefore anybody knowing about its C1's are legally obliged to report it to the HSE if the owner refuses to have it rectified. Legally you're not allowed to just 'walk away'. It's a very important distinction.

 

[pc1966]

Yes sometimes we need to careful when we use acronyms.
BBC for example. Can mean something else completely on some types of forums!

CBT can mean something VERY different if you are on other forums!

 

[loz2754]

CBT can mean something VERY different if you are on other forums!

What's wrong with cognitive behavioural therapy? ?

 

[telectrix]

What's wrong with cognitive behavioural therapy? ?

i'd tell you if i had a clue what it was.

 

[DefyG]

I think the big difference with this installation however is that it is a public premises and therefore anybody knowing about its C1's are legally obliged to report it to the HSE if the owner refuses to have it rectified. Legally you're not allowed to just 'walk away'. It's a very important distinction.

The sparks was probably one of the landlords 'mates' regular customers and wouldn't upset the apple cart by reporting anything. Probably did the work for a couple of free pints so no invoice, no record of having done anything (work wise) at the pub until something goes badly wrong ...... ie the young lad losing his life!!

 

[Mike Johnson]

If I remember correctly the electrician was the landlords BIL and shall we say quite old, or is that in the prime of his life.

CBT = Compulsory Bike Training Is all I can find, how sheltered has my life been?

 

[loz2754]

The sparks was probably one of the landlords 'mates' regular customers and wouldn't upset the apple cart by reporting anything. Probably did the work for a couple of free pints so no invoice, no record of having done anything (work wise) at the pub until something goes badly wrong ...... ie the young lad losing his life!!

And very sad to hear. My heart goes out to those affected by this tragedy.
Also very sad to say it will make little or no long term difference to most people who read this.
It will be forgotten about within a short time. But if even one landlord takes notice and takes positive action that will mean something.

 

[telectrix]

last pub i went to quote on was a nightmare. CU high level behind bar but could be reached off a stool. no cover on it, more cables than screwfix stock. was a 10 way board and it needed at least a 20 way. loads of bodged additions. quoted him 2 grand to replace with full 20 way RCBO board and wasn't surprised when he didn't accept.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I suppose that Pub Landlords in a tied pub are on full repairing leas's, will have to investigate the responsibility of the freeholder on safety issue's, but in this time when lots of Pubs are closing and there is no Landlord in residence the freeholder must become responsible for the installation?

 

[Electrics]

The sparks was probably one of the landlords 'mates' regular customers and wouldn't upset the apple cart by reporting anything. Probably did the work for a couple of free pints so no invoice, no record of having done anything (work wise) at the pub until something goes badly wrong ...... ie the young lad losing his life!!

True the artcle says they were brothers in law

 

[brianmoooore]

did the work for a couple of free pints so no invoice,

Beer and food was my payment for the one foray ever into pub electrics that I mentioned earlier in the thread. The MCBs for the kitchen power circuits were showing extreme signs of distress through overheating, unused ways weren't blanked off, and the boards were at waist height in an unlocked cupboard on the public side of the bar. As far as records show, I was never there.
The stress of the first lockdown gave the then owner a nervous breakdown, it was put on the market and quickly sold to one of the managers, who then shut the place down completely until the beginning of December, using the time in between to completely refurbish the place, including the wiring, so hopefully all is well now.