Condensing extractor fan

[littlespark]

Is there such a thing?

Just a standard bathroom, but can’t get through a wall or take out a window.
Are there specific condenser fans, or just use a normal one and fit a normal condensation trap and block up the end of the duct?

 

[Marvo]

Like a recirculating fan with a dehumidifier unit attached? Not as far as I know or not on the small scale you need at least....

 

[Baddegg]

Vectaire Fan Water Trap | Byretech Ltd

Vectaire Fan Water Trap available from Byretech Ltd a Bathroom water damage prevention specialist store

www.byretech.com

Been presented with this issue myself before littlespark…..at the time I left it as I had no idea, but was wondering if something like the trap in the link above could be used and then the moisture redistributed/directed in to waste water pipe somewhere much like a condensing boiler…..only a theory and not something I’ve ever attempted or looked into to deeply….

 

[littlespark]

You get condensation traps for a regular ducted extraction system…. For when the moist air cools and can’t be forced out as air….. but that’s only a fraction of the air.
I’m needing all of it to condense.

The homeowner thinks it will work, and really only needs me for the electrical bit.

I’ll just let him get in with the ducting part.


It’s only a small shower room, with a sash and case window on street side (2 floors up) but council won’t allow either a window fan or coring through and putting a vent on the wall.
Their suggestion was a vertical vent through the roof.

 

[loz2754]

I don't think such a thing exists. Can you not fit a vent in the soffit, or take out a roof tile and replace it with a roof tile vent?

 

[Baddegg]

Ahhh

You get condensation traps for a regular ducted extraction system…. For when the moist air cools and can’t be forced out as air….. but that’s only a fraction of the air.
I’m needing all of it to condense.

The homeowner thinks it will work, and really only needs me for the electrical bit.

I’ll just let him get in with the ducting part.


It’s only a small shower room, with a sash and case window on street side (2 floors up) but council won’t allow either a window fan or coring through and putting a vent on the wall.
Their suggestion was a vertical vent through the roof.

ahhh I see, in that I case I always vent my fans through the roof when possible, roofing merchants will sell ya a tile/slate to match existing with fittings to attach flexi etc to……I just hung a roof monkey a drink and up they go…..much easier than drilling 110mm holes

 

[Mike Johnson]

Condensation trap piped back to the waste for the basin or shower or even into the soil stack perhaps? or at a push into the WC cistern.

WFMLNC.

 

[Chivers]

We get quite a bit of condensation in the winter in our bathrooms - three daughters one of which showers for ages. I'm thinking of installing one of these > Vent Axia PureAir Home + Heater PIV - Positive Input Ventilation Unit | Vent Axia (479091 / 476311) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VAPAHH.html Maybe a dehumidifier would help in the situation for your client?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Looks a good bit of kit, just dubious about its ability to extract the amount of condensation associated with excess showering, would suggest a powerful extractor and a humidistat to control the motor, I have the Manrose humidistat that has a timer as well, find that by the time I have wiped down the shower not only has all the condensation gone, but I am also mostly dry, this is the extractor I fitted: 4"/100mm In Line Duct Extractor Fan - Silent 250m3/hr | Soler_&_Palau (5211360600) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SLTD250SILENT.html and it lives up to it's name of silent very quiet compared to others.

 

[Chivers]

Get what you pay for I guess?

I bought some Anti condensation paint from a place in Bristol when I was working away over there. The walls feel a bit warmer to the touch so nothing seems to settle on the walls when cold

 

[nicebutdim]

Looks a good bit of kit, just dubious about its ability to extract the amount of condensation associated with excess showering.

PIV doesn't extract - positive input ventilation pushes air through the home and helps prevents condensation from forming.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Get what you pay for I guess?

This was for our own en-suite shower, so no compromise on quality.

 

[Mike Johnson]

PIV doesn't extract - positive input ventilation pushes air through the home and helps prevents condensation from forming.

The advent of hermetically sealed homes have made this sort of ventilation almost mandatory, it's all a compromise in the end due to needing air in to circulate, this is all standard practice in new builds now days, including heat exchangers on bathroom/Kitchen extracts, the amount of ducting in the loft of these so called passive homes can be quite extensive, easier in a single story dwelling, but difficult to retro fit in a older property, I did try extracting some heat from our wood stove chimney and ducting it too our bedrooms, worked to a certain extent, but in the end not worth the effort.

This may interest you: https://www.leroymerlin.fr/produits/chauffage-et-ventilation/vmc-et-extracteur-air/

 

[nicebutdim]

The advent of hermetically sealed homes have made this sort of ventilation almost mandatory, it's all a compromise in the end due to needing air in to circulate, this is all standard practice in new builds now days, including heat exchangers on bathroom/Kitchen extracts, the amount of ducting in the loft of these so called passive homes can be quite extensive, easier in a single story dwelling, but difficult to retro fit in a older property, I did try extracting some heat from our wood stove chimney and ducting it too our bedrooms, worked to a certain extent, but in the end not worth the effort.

This may interest you: https://www.leroymerlin.fr/produits/chauffage-et-ventilation/vmc-et-extracteur-air/

PIV isn't generally difficult to retrofit as it would supply a single point in the average 3 bed house - typically the landing.

I have 'silent' humidistat fans in bathrooms and have been pleased with their effectiveness, but have been thinking of adding a PIV unit as I like the idea of forced air to all rooms.

 

[Chivers]

I think I'd need to fit door grills to upstairs bedrooms to help with movement. Nice link Mike be I don't speak French

 

[nicebutdim]

I think I'd need to fit door grills to upstairs bedrooms to help with movement. Nice link Mike be I don't speak French

I find poor joinery work helps as air moves freely through gaps under doors.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I think I'd need to fit door grills to upstairs bedrooms to help with movement. Nice link Mike be I don't speak French

Go to Google settings and you can set it to always translate French.

PV at only a single point will not be very effective at distributing air around a whole dwelling.

The French have legislated this for new builds, this link will explain fully: https://www.leroymerlin.fr/comment-choisir/comment-choisir-sa-vmc.html

 

[nicebutdim]

PV at only a single point will not be very effective at distributing air around a whole dwelling.

*PIV

Those stand alone units are mostly intended for use in homes with up to 5 bedrooms, with some being intended for 3 story properties. I'm no expert on the subject of PIV, but people I've met to who have installed units in their own homes speak very highly of them. As with anything there will be people whose experiences are less than satisfactory, but I've not yet met one.

Given that the principle is increased air pressure in the home, I'd contend that it should be very effective indeed - provided the property doesn't have huge air gaps. In a modern 'hermetically sealed' property, their effect is reported to be noticible immediately.

The people I've spoken to (those who knew what had been installed) all have Nuaire Drymaster units and I've not heard any first hand reports about the Vent Axia units previously linked.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have 'silent' humidistat fans in bathrooms and have been pleased with their effectiveness, but have been thinking of adding a PIV unit as I like the idea of forced air to all rooms.

Don't you think the Humidistat fans, presumably as extracts, will be fighting any PIV you install?

The links I have provided above are for extracting stale/moist/air from rooms, not pressurising, different systems.

 

[nicebutdim]

Don't you think the Humidistat fans, presumably as extracts, will be fighting any PIV you install?

The links I have provided above are for extracting stale/moist/air from rooms, not pressurising, different systems.

That's a question I've wondered about. Heated PIV is intended to eliminate moisture, so it may be that they work fine with it. If they turned out to be an issue, then local isolation would simply be switched off.

My French is basic, but it appears to me that the system you linked is multi room extraction with humidistats, which does the same job as the fans I have - albeit from a central extraction unit.

 

[Mike Johnson]

That's a question I've wondered about. Heated PIV is intended to eliminate moisture, so it may be that they work fine with it. If they turned out to be an issue, then local isolation would simply be switched off.

My French is basic, but it appears to me that the system you linked is multi room extraction with humidistats, which does the same job as the fans I have - albeit from a central extraction unit.

Introducing Hot air that holds more moisture?

The OP's original question was for a condensing extract, although I don't think a condensing extract is available the nearest you can get is an extractor or system with a Humidistat control, condensation collected can be piped to any convenient drain even back into the toilet cistern at a push.

To translate the site I linked Google settings has a translation app built in go too settings and tick the "always translate French" tab.

 

[nicebutdim]

Introducing Hot air that holds more moisture?

The OP's original question was for a condensing extract, although I don't think a condensing extract is available the nearest you can get is an extractor or system with a Humidistat control, condensation collected can be piped to any convenient drain even back into the toilet cistern at a push.

To translate the site I linked Google settings has a translation app built in go too settings and tick the "always translate French" tab.

PIV doesn't introduce hot air. 'Heated' units simply take the chill off air being introduced from outside during periods of cold weather. You could learn this by reading from the link previously posted by another member.

Original issue posted by OP can be easily resolved as per the council's suggestion of venting an extractor through the roof. I don't envisage the council in question being willing to pay for multi-room extraction, in order to provide bathroom extraction.

Reading the linked page in English is not possible as Leroy Merlin want to block me for some reason. Firefox is exceptionally easy to set up automatic translation on, but in order to do so one needs to be able to access the page in question. From what I can ascertain your link contains two versions of this product: The first a simple multi-room extraction system, which vents externally and doesn't collect condensate and the second appears to be a heat recovery system, which I think was suggested early in the thread and would be much cheaper to install as a stand alone unit for bathroom only as opposed to full house. The downside of the systems you have linked is the requirement for one or more points of external ventilation, which brings us back to the OP's original issue - not wanting to go through the roof. Unless I've missed something, none of these systems can be installed without external ventilation.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Very basic Physics, heated air holds more moisture, no matter where it comes from or how it is introduced.

The condescending remark in your post above is below the standard I expect from you.

 

[nicebutdim]

Very basic Physics, heated air holds more moisture, no matter where it comes from or how it is introduced.

The condescending remark in your post above is below the standard I expect from you.

You've lost me, Mike. Nowhere in my last post is the word 'condensing' even used, but we're no longer addressing the OP's question, so I'll bow out of this and not ask for further explanation.

 

[Froggie]

Their suggestion was a vertical vent through the roof.

I've used this product lapVent roof space ventilation system - product overview - https://lapvent.co.uk/overview.html with insulated ducting a couple of times where it hasn't been possible to core externally. They appear to work very well and are quicker and significantly less messy than coring.

 

[mhar]

I have installed a few PIV systems. They are more whole house solutions than single room solutions and they are suprisingly effective. Both nu-aire and vent-axia, to me the only difference appears to be price.

I have only put in one whole house heat recovery and ventilation system, it gives the occupants dry throats and because they have ufh they don't even have a radiator or heater that they can put a bowl of water on to add a bit of humidity!

Going back to the original question, there is something that does the job, a dehumidifier. However people will have views about placing one in a bathroom