Netzero1967
DIY
- Thread starter Netzero1967
- Start date
Netzero1967
DIY
IS there a minimum distance between the consumer unit and waste pipe. The waste pipe is on the left of consumer unit.
Is this part of the EICR property from your other thread?
Netzero1967
DIY
yes - so i need to replace consumer unit. However, does it need to be relocated to meet regs?
Would help if you kept this to the other thread.
Tom256
Arms
Deleted content due to seeing message above re: keep to original thread. Will reply same if the thread continues
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We can leave the other thread as “electrician hasn’t given me the report” problem and have this one to discuss what’s actually cropped up on the report…
You don’t actually know what’s on it as you haven’t got it…. Was it just the tester saying you needed a new board without explaining why?
The two boards there could possibly be amalgamated into one, bring it over to the right hand side, away from the drain pipe.
Do you know any other faults?
A satisfactory EICR can have C3 coded faults. Simply means improvement recommended.
Unsatisfactory would be C1 - dangerous or C2 - potentially dangerpus.
As the property is a rental, there is also the safety of the tenants to consider.
A C3 may well be ok for the report, but perhaps should be upgraded anyway.
You don’t actually know what’s on it as you haven’t got it…. Was it just the tester saying you needed a new board without explaining why?
The two boards there could possibly be amalgamated into one, bring it over to the right hand side, away from the drain pipe.
Do you know any other faults?
A satisfactory EICR can have C3 coded faults. Simply means improvement recommended.
Unsatisfactory would be C1 - dangerous or C2 - potentially dangerpus.
As the property is a rental, there is also the safety of the tenants to consider.
A C3 may well be ok for the report, but perhaps should be upgraded anyway.
Netzero1967
DIY
you are right, i do not have the EICR report. I have spoken since the the inspection, a number of times to person doing the inspection. He was adament that there needs to be a minimum of 300mm from waste pipe to consumer unit,
I believe in the pic, consumer unit on right is not used. Consumer unit on left is live.
I believe there will also be FI findings on the report.
Insist he submits the Report or tell him you are going to seek legal advise. I presume you had no contract.
Tom256
Arms
No there is no need for 300 mm distance in BS 7671 . The NHBC Technical document requires 300mm from electrical consumer units and the edges of sink / basins. Building regs require 300mm distance from the edge of sinks / basins in Kitchens to reduce risk of splashes - is that where he is getting the distance from?. I have had this before from builders / electricians but it is not a BS7671 requirement.
Ask him to provide the regulation he has coded against as that way the discussion is set against the regulation not against someones subjective opinion. It should not be a case of an observation without the regulation for then there is nothing to challange against.
BS 6891 for low pressure gas does have a separation distance requirement but not for waste water pipes.
The BS 7671 2018+A2:2022 Regulations that refer would certainly be Regulations 528.3.3, 528.3.4
528.3.3 - Where an Electrical service is to be installed in proximity to one or more non-electrical services it shall be so arranged that any foreseable operation carried out on the other service will not cause damage to the electrical services or the converse.
[This is basic design ensuring electrical systems are fit for purpose in the environment they are intended to operate and is always a consideration that must be taken into account.]
528.3.4 - Where an Electrical service is located in close proximity to one or more non-electrical services, both the following conditions shall apply:
(i) The wiring system shall be suitably protected against the hazzards likely to arise from the presence of the other service in normal use (Bold mine)
(ii) Fault protection shall be afforded in accordance with the requirements od section 411.
This regulation clearly does allow for services to be in close proximity and if they are the (i) and (ii) then need to be complied with.
Section 411 relates to Automatic disconnection of supply. This protective measure is used in most electrical installations and is made up of two parts they being 1. Basic protection that is the insulation / barriers for live parts and 2. Fault protection which comprises protective earthing and bonding plus automatic disconnection under fault conditions.
If the coding relates to suitability to hazzard the above are the considerations. I cannot see a C2 observation relating to the waste pipe.
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Netzero1967
DIY
so i have finally received the EICR report today. So there are only 5 off C2 findings.
One is the distance of the consumer unit from the waste pipe.
C2 "consumer to near waste pipe " << is all he has written on the report.
Now you can take the report to any other electrician to quote for remedial work.
All codes should be accompanied by a relevant regulation number… and fit into one of the statements pre listed on the report.
Are the other coded items just as fictitious?
All codes should be accompanied by a relevant regulation number… and fit into one of the statements pre listed on the report.
Are the other coded items just as fictitious?
Netzero1967
DIY
K. OBSERVATIONS
Item No Observation Classification Code
1 cables concealed due to floorboards up C3 << heat pump just installed so not an issue.
2 consumer to near waste pipe C2
3 bathroom downlight no correct ipx4 permitted C2
4 socket on fault high reading line to cpc C2
5 cpc on ring no reading from db1 C2
6 reading high on ir sockets C2
There are more codes lower in the report, including 1 C1.
Netzero1967
DIY
Also what does not make sense then he has marked installation as satisfactory. lol
General conditions of the installation
Does Complies with bs7671
Overall Assessment of the Installation
Satisfactory
Tom256
Arms
The report is nonsense and he does not know what he is doing. The installation could be fine , may not be, may not be and have nothing to do with what he has 'garbled out'.
I have been inspecting for a long time and what you have SIr is not uncommon and quite a disgusting stain on this industry I love and have pride in.
The inspection is conducted against the current edition of BS7671 if it complies with BS 7671 there would be no C2 codings; that and it cannot be satisfactory with C1, C2 or F.I.
As for the wording on those codes - oh dear!
I could go through them all, subjective nonsense, example point 6. What reading is high? What does he mean by 'high'?
What is the C1 ? - what was done at the time of the inspection to make this C1 safe?
I certainly would be very concened about letting this person touch the installation
Can I ask if you have any electrical experience / background? You seem to have some insights.
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Says ir is high on sockets what is that all about?
Tom256
Arms
So it is the 'Consumer' too near the waste pipe (yes I corrected his typo) , well stop standing so close then. Still not a C2
Tom256
Arms
I say that and figured ir = Insulation resistance, guess not?
Item 2 - nonsense
Item 3 - if out of the zones nonsense however they may not be suitable for the environment
Item 4 - no idea what that means
Item 5 - probably no continuity on r2 so that's okay
Item 6 - no idea what that means
As above what is the Code 1?
Item 3 - if out of the zones nonsense however they may not be suitable for the environment
Item 4 - no idea what that means
Item 5 - probably no continuity on r2 so that's okay
Item 6 - no idea what that means
As above what is the Code 1?
Netzero1967
DIY
Code 1 is he could not find earthing rod from consumer unit.
Description Quantity Unit Price (£) VAT (%) VAT (£) Total (£)
1 bathroom lights and extractor fan repair
2 sockets - repair investigate fault and repair
3 lounge lights installation
4 ring sockets on earthing fault
5 oil new bonding supply
6 fuseboard installation, relocation fuseboard & new tt ststem
so planning to so all the remedial work. Not with him. He want £1,700 for everything, which seems high. Going to replace the consumer unit, just not relocate it.
Tom256
Arms
Not being able to find an earth rod is NOT a C1
There may not be an Earth 'rod' even IF it is a TT system, and it could well be, yet I say 'IF' because of the observations [for what they are] so far posted and what has not been picked up.
There is a lot I could say on this and to be honest I am holding back because:
1. Your original question is answered with reasons and regulation
2. I can feel myself becoming angry with having to sample yet more of this incompetence that is a cancer within the industry.
What I am pleased to say is you will be looking for some other contractor who, if it were I, would rip up this 'report' and start from fresh before touching anything
Netzero1967
DIY
I am an engineer. but not an electrical engineer. I think he has been evasive, to ensure he gets the work. I wouldnt touch him with abarge pole.
Can you show the Report with personal details redacted?
Netzero1967
DIY
Report attached.
The observations don't include the Code 1 and multiple Code 3s on the inspection schedule.
Netzero1967
DIY
1.3 Condition of distributor's earthing arrangement C1
3.1. Presence and condition of distributor's earthing arrangement (542.1.2.1; 542.2.2) C1
further down report.
They should be itemised in Section K.
What is wrong with the lounge lights it makes no mention of those.
What is wrong with the lounge lights it makes no mention of those.
Tom256
Arms
Just very quickly looked and stunned
Figures are nonsense, data entered is wrong everywhere I look. He has NO understanding of what he is doing. None.
From the intake information , protective devices details and on and on .
TT system suggests the distributor will not provide the means of earthing for the consumer. By way of but one example, this can be because the distributor cannot guarantee the earth connection. This is common where the intake supply is by way of LV overhead supply which perhaps you have.
As such there is no Distributors Earthing arrangment to code against!
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PS Electrics
Arms
Utter Garbage!
Netzero1967
DIY
They were broken by last tenant. so going to replace them.
Netzero1967
DIY
Does that mean i do not need an additional earthing rod? I paid good money for the EICR report.
Tom256
Arms
TT Earthing is a customised solution to the location as such it would need to be looked at, measurements taken for location and more.
The TT arrangment does not have to be by way of an 'Rod' other ways can be deployed.
As such it would need to looked at on-site before anyone can comment on such.
What I am saying is his report is all wrong. There is no Distributors arrangment with TT and yet that said I would not even say with any certainty that you have a TT Earthing system at this stage based on that report.
PS Electrics
Arms
You should ask for a refund!
First chance ive had today to have a read of the report..... and i wish i hadnt.
i dont want to make you feel any worse than you might do already.... but would you mind telling us how much you were charged, and how long it took to perform this EICR?
If not, can you DM me, and i'll share info with other staff only.
We are a forum made up of some very good professionals... some practicing, some retired, and some just respectful of the trade... Sometimes it can be grating when so called electricians come along and fleece the general public.
i dont want to make you feel any worse than you might do already.... but would you mind telling us how much you were charged, and how long it took to perform this EICR?
If not, can you DM me, and i'll share info with other staff only.
We are a forum made up of some very good professionals... some practicing, some retired, and some just respectful of the trade... Sometimes it can be grating when so called electricians come along and fleece the general public.
Tom256
Arms
This report and the way this individual is operating is bothering me. (EDIT - did post anger but not quite at that point yet)
I would be happy to advise the OP should it be of help. Sir, I would second the advice to seek refundof monies paid.
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Not as high as the tester, it seems
I would be reporting him.
Was away all day yesterday, and didn't get to see this thread as it developed, but I think we've reached a new level in EICR incompetence here. It largely makes no sense whatsoever, with multiple contradictions of itself all the way through.
We quite often see EICRs on here that have clearly been performed by persons without the relevant knowledge of what they're doing, and also those that are obviously 'drive bys' where little or no testing has actually been done, but this one comes over as all the work have been done, but then the tester having no idea how to interpret the results.
We quite often see EICRs on here that have clearly been performed by persons without the relevant knowledge of what they're doing, and also those that are obviously 'drive bys' where little or no testing has actually been done, but this one comes over as all the work have been done, but then the tester having no idea how to interpret the results.
PS Electrics
Arms
According to rated people they are Part P Registered with Napit (Their wording)
Checking the Member Number they have been withdrawn due to non compliance
To be fair they do not say they are with Napit or any CPS on their Website so the rated people reference is probably an oversight in not updating it. Napit do not give any dates regarding when membership was withdrawn.
Perhaps the OP should contact rated people so the reference to being Part P registered is at least withdrawn.
Checking the Member Number they have been withdrawn due to non compliance
To be fair they do not say they are with Napit or any CPS on their Website so the rated people reference is probably an oversight in not updating it. Napit do not give any dates regarding when membership was withdrawn.
Perhaps the OP should contact rated people so the reference to being Part P registered is at least withdrawn.
Tom256
Arms
He has only listed an Earth Loop tester as used so make of that what you will
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