AFDD EICR - unsatisfactory report landlord

[Smem18]

We are new landlords and have just got an EICR done. The building is only 5 years old so I am shocked that remedial work has been noted as necessary/mandatory. Apparently AFDDs needs to be fitted as the building is over 6 story’s high (it’s a 4th floor one bed flat) due to a regulation that came in a couple of months ago? Does this sound right to you? It’s thrown a massive curve ball as we are meant to have tenants moving in tomorrow but there is no way we can get this remedied in 24 the next hours. Please tell me we aren’t being scammed into work we don’t need? I was so surprised because I asked the electrician before he left and he said everything was fine! But the report I received a few hours later says otherwise. What am I looking at cost wise to fix this? I’m heavily pregnant and so stressed by this. I did so much research into what was required for landlords but never came across this new regulation  I had a report booked to be done sooner as well but we were let down by the electrician and had to rebook elsewhere at short notice

 

[Smem18]

 

[Mike Johnson]

Regulations are not retrospective, so if your installation conformed to the regulations at the time of installation then they do not need up-dating.

 

[Smem18]

Regulations are not retrospective, so if your installation conformed to the regulations at the time of installation then they do not need up-dating.

Thank you. Things I am reading online are saying that in order to pass an EICR we would now need AFDDs. Is that not the case? If so, why has this company provided us with an unsatisfactory report

 

[Mike Johnson]

EICR's are made against the latest regulations, they can not comment on an installation that was done under an unknown regulation time period.

 

[Smem18]

So in that case we will need AFDDs? Because we have to have a satisfactory EICR in place for this tenancy.

EICR's are made against the latest regulations, they can not comment on an installation that was done under an unknown regulation time period.

 

[SJD]

My understanding is you have to have an EICR done (outcome satisfactory or unsatisfactory), with 28 days allowed for remedials - so a tenant can still move in prior to the remedial work being completed (if it is even needed). However, some letting agents don't understand it that way.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Hi Smem18.

An EICR will compare the electrical installation to the current edition of the regulations, and will 'code' any non compliances. C1 and C2 are immediate or potential danger, C3 improvement recommended. Any C1s or C2s will need correcting for your rental property.

The current edition of the regs came into full effect at the end of September, and now mandates AFDDs for certain properties, including yours, so this had to be coded. Whether lack of AFDDs is a C2 or C3 is for the electrician to decide, it's up to their judgement. Industry guidance hasn't been updated yet for the latest edition.

In this case (s)he has decided C2, so it will need correcting, I'm afraid.

 

[timhoward]

You have two choices - get it inspected again and discuss the AFDD situation in advance, or get them fitted. The price of a re inspection would/should be higher than getting this work done.

The good news is that it’s a Hager board and AFFD modules are available - for some this would need a completely new consumer unit.

(I’d go ahead and move tenants in myself. AFDDs haven’t been around very long and the idea that not having them suddenly makes an installation potentially dangerous is a stretch for me personally.)

It’s a fairly quick job to fit 2 or 3 modules to a consumer unit and retest those circuits. I’d imagine you are looking at a couple of hours labour plus the price of the AFDDs (roughly £120 each)

 

[Smem18]

You have two choices - get it inspected again and discuss the AFDD situation in advance, or get them fitted. The price of a re inspection would/should be higher than getting this work done.

The good news is that it’s a Hager board and AFFD modules are available - for some this would need a completely new consumer unit.

(I’d go ahead and move tenants in myself. AFDDs haven’t been around very long and the idea that not having them suddenly makes an installation potentially dangerous is a stretch for me personally.)

It’s a fairly quick job to fit 2 or 3 modules to a consumer unit and retest those circuits. I’d imagine you are looking at a couple of hours labour plus the price of the AFDDs (roughly £120 each)

Thank you. I am inclined to just get the work done even if it costs extra, rather than trying to wheedle out or circumvent the system as it will likely only cause problems is years to come every time we need to renew the certificate. I was reading new consumer units are £2k+ and stuff so your message is reassuring. I am not an electrician so I do not know from looking at our consumer unit what the cost is likely to be?

 

[davesparks]

EICR's are made against the latest regulations, they can not comment on an installation that was done under an unknown regulation time period.

An EICR can and should comment on installations carried out to previous versions of the regulations where items affect safety.

One of the reasons an EICR is carried out is to identify areas of an installation where changes in regulations and technology mean that safety improvements can be made.

The outcome of an EICR doesn't change based on the age of an installation.

 

[newfutile]

GN3 say that we test against the current regs ,however BS7671 also states the regulations are not retrospective. I think guides like best practise guide 4 (still not updated) allow for the fact the places were wired in the past. We would not code no rcd on domestic lighting as a C2 ,i discussed possible future coding of BPG4 at my last NICEIC assessment ,he said afdd in HRRB would most likely be a C3 .
having said this its up to the inspector to code and im sure its good to protect your property from cheap white goods as i suspect is the job of Arc Fault Detection Device (AFDD). I wonder if SPD’s are fitted and that attracted a C2 code ?

 

[Rockingit]

There's an interesting aspect to this....... So they've picked on AFDD's as non-compliant for a HRRB, but not use of AC type RCD's in a domestic. So much inconsistency here.

 

[Smem18]

There's an interesting aspect to this....... So they've picked on AFDD's as non-compliant for a HRRB, but not use of AC type RCD's in a domestic. So much inconsistency here.

Interesting. I suppose one of the things I am worried about is that these new regs have come out and there will be companies eager to jump straight to labelling this issue C2 and handing out expensive quotations for fixes. It’s clear reading this thread there are differences in opinion on this matter between electricians, making it very hard to navigate.

 

[Rockingit]

For what it's worth...... if this was me, I'd be giving a C3, because......

Is it imminently or potentially dangerous = No
Is it currently compliant = No
Can it / should it be corrected in the future = Yes

 

[loz2754]

. I wonder if SPD’s are fitted and that attracted a C2 code ?

SPDs are not fitted and it has been coded C3. (Post #2)
I too would code lack of AFDDs as C3, and lack of SPDs as C3.

Edit: any new work planned as an alteration or addition to an affected circuit could not proceed unless the AFDD was installed.
So this could add weight to your decision to just go ahead and get the AFDDs fitted anyway.

 

[timhoward]

I wonder if SPD’s are fitted and that attracted a C2 code

They are not fitted, and got a C3!

There's an interesting aspect to this....... So they've picked on AFDD's as non-compliant for a HRRB, but not use of AC type RCD's in a domestic. So much inconsistency here.

Yes, I thought that too.

It’s clear reading this thread there are differences in opinion on this matter between electricians, making it very hard to navigate.

EICR's are primarily supposed to be about assessing safety. @davesparks sums it up very well above.
Generally C2 codes are supposed to be for where if one more thing happened you would be one step away from serious injury or fatalities being likely.
AFDD's (while now mandated for some new installations) are an additional safety feature to reduce the risk of fires due to electrical faults. Not having one would not be judged potentially dangerous for most pragmatic seasoned electricians unless there were things observed in the inspection that increased risks.

One other comment - you are not obliged to use the same firm to fix this.
You can get as many quotes as you like to fit Hager AFDDs to the socket circuits, and choose one you like. All you need according to the PRS legislation is evidence that the work is done, and an invoice clipped to the original EICR would achieve that, or even some photos.

Section 5 of the ‘Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020’ states that where remedial work is required following an EICR report a private landlord must obtain written confirmation from a qualified person that the further investigative or remedial work has been carried out and that (i)the electrical safety standards are met; or (ii)further investigative or remedial work is required.

 

[Rockingit]

Having just been doing some surfing on Hager stuff, it seems that rather annoyingly their AFDD MCB's are double width, whereas their AFDD RCBO's are single. So anyone with a split board that needs modifying is totally stuffed unless you happen to have a load of spare ways and an installer with the skills and spares kit to modify it around.

 

[Smem18]

For what it's worth...... if this was me, I'd be giving a C3, because......

Is it imminently or potentially dangerous = No
Is it currently compliant = No
Can it / should it be corrected in the future = Yes

So I have got a second opinion off 4 other electricians now and sent them the report. They all unanimously, and without hesitation, said they would grade it C3. I followed this up with a call to the NIC EIC (national inspection council for electrical installations) and they said it should catagorically be a C3 even though the building is over 18 meters.

Attached is the quote the company sent me for the works which seems very high. I asked for the cheapest way possible to bring it to regulations

 

[Rockingit]

So I have got a second opinion off 4 other electricians now and sent them the report. They all unanimously, and without hesitation, said they would grade it C3. I followed this up with a call to the NIC EIC (national inspection council for electrical installations) and they said it should catagorically be a C3 even though the building is over 18 meters.

Attached is the quote the company sent me for the works which seems very high. I asked for the cheapest way possible to bring it to regulations

Utter wrip-off nonsense, in my opinion.

I'd be tempted to go back to the inspecting company and ask them to put in writing the inspector's justification for a C2 coding when after a discussion with the NICEIC you've been advised that should only be a C3.... bet you get an amended report out of it.