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hi I have a customer with an American Fridge freezer that trips the RCD every couple of hours. The FF is a couple of years old and cost £2000 apparently , so the customer says replacing it is out of the question. Obviously all domestic circuits are to be RCD protected but is there a get out with a risk assessment to take that circuit off the RCD? It is not a dedicated circuit as it is the kitchen ring. Any advice would be great.
Cheers
 
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Strima

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Risk assessment is not permitted in domestic.

If the customer refuses to repair or replace then tough titties, that's their decision.
 

Rpa07

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Is it the fridge that’s to fault or the wiring system itself - 2 hours is a long time to be tripping.
Can you extension lead it on another circuit/ RCD?
 
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  • #4
Defo the FF . I’ve been looking into the problem and there are a few things that can cause the tripping of an rcd. Heating coils that defrost certain parts of the FF and frozen coils etc. I tried an extension from another circuit and it tripped the other rcd.
 
Beat me to it ruston.

I have a little earth leakage clamp meter set it to min max and leave it on suspect appliance.
 
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  • #7
There is a defo a fault in some component that produces enough earth leakage to trip the rcd. I don't have an earth leakage clamp meter.
 

telectrix

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could you install a non-RCD dedicated circuit and fir a FCU?
 

ruston

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You are stuffed without test gear , is it when the fridge or the freezer is cutting that is tripping it ? long shot that it is noticed I know
 

ruston

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could you install a non-RCD dedicated circuit and fir a FCU?
Here Tel, borrow my Tin hat!
No he is right , as long as the circuit does not require an RCD because of installation methods.
I was going to suggest that if it was only high earth leakage that is causing the problem
 
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  • #13
You are stuffed without test gear , is it when the fridge or the freezer is cutting that is tripping it ? long shot that it is noticed I know
Apparently in this model every now and then a heating element comes on to defrost the coil when needed and it is common to develop more earth leakage than an 30ma rcd will take. If it can't go on a non rcd circuit then there fooked by the looks of it
 
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  • #15
No he is right , as long as the circuit does not require an RCD because of installation methods.
I was going to suggest that if it was only high earth leakage that is causing the problem
That's the answer im looking for but is there exceptions in the regs to put ait on a non rcd circuit in domestic ?
 

Rpa07

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Can’t see that happening in a kitchen where there is an American FF though!
Could bounce off of the other thread with the SWA going outside the house and then back in to an outlet!
No he is right , as long as the circuit does not require an RCD because of installation methods.
I was going to suggest that if it was only high earth leakage that is causing the problem
 

telectrix

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RCDs are required for...
1. Sockets.
2. luminaires.
3. cables buried <50mm deep in walls ( unless otherwise protected yadayada.

avoid 1.2.and 3, by 1.fitting FCU instead of socket, 2 is irrelevant. 3.choosing installation method .

 

ruston

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The requirement is for socket outlets and installation methods . As long as your method does not require rcd protection and you are sure the FF is not faulty there is nothing to stop you using an fcu as @telectrix suggests.
 

ruston

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Can’t see that happening in a kitchen where there is an American FF though!
Could bounce off of the other thread with the SWA going outside the house and then back in to an outlet!
If it is a posh kitchen it will probably cost as much to put in than to fix the thing. ;)
PS . It will depend on your board , you may not have an unprotected way . It might start getting ...
 
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Charlie_

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Should be able to afford the services of a refrigeration repair man then..
Did you manage to get any low readings to earth?
 

magnoliafan89

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Or > 50mm lol. Might be lucky and have a wooden floor or cellar. ;)
Not be pretty . Engineer is the best option
True but i meant with minimal disruption lol if its an all singing all dancing kitchen i seriously doubt theyd want any chasing to be done let alone that far into a wall and they wouldnt want trunking or conduit
 

ruston

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True but i meant with minimal disruption lol if its an all singing all dancing kitchen i seriously doubt theyd want any chasing to be done let alone that far into a wall and they wouldnt want trunking or conduit
Yes , I was tongue in cheek . :)
 
As others have said the best option is to get it fixed, if it's less than six years old (five years in Scotland) they could claim against the supplier, it's unlikely that anything other than a manufacturing defect would cause intermittent RCD trips in a new-ish product.

If all else fails it could be powered from an isolating transformer, fridge-freezers don't take much peak power so a transformer wouldn't be a silly size or cost. It would be a bit of a hack but so long as the earth bond is maintained it would be safe and would prevent RCD trips.
 
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Does it record the info or do you have to watch it and wait for the moment it trips?
It will record either min or max for as long as the supply is on.
When supply is off(trips) it stops recording data but will leave you with a reading.

I have a mock up adaptor I use to separate L N E in the appliance flex as clamping the flex as a whole will give no reading.

I was without one until a year ago it really does save alot of agro.
 
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  • #30
Would be very embarrassing if it turns out to be a live to earth fault large enough to trip mcb on the new dedicated circuit
It would trip right away if that was the case
 
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  • #31
It will record either min or max for as long as the supply is on.
When supply is off(trips) it stops recording data but will leave you with a reading.

I have a mock up adaptor I use to separate L N E in the appliance flex as clamping the flex as a whole will give no reading.

I was without one until a year ago it really does save alot of agro.
Thanks!!
 

Charlie_

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It would trip right away if that was the case
Why is that?
 
You could try a dedicated non rcd circuit just for the fridge alone.
do they allow for that ?
 

Wilko

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Hi - if the fridge was mine and given its age I'd have it repaired by manufacturer. Failing that I'd be disconnecting and testing the defrost heater as has been mentioned. I would not work to remove an RCD to solve an appliance trip, just saying.
 

telectrix

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it's american, surely it can be fixed with a hammer or a low cholestrol diet.
 

Charlie_

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In America they are just called fridges (or cooler boxes)
Is it only America that have a national refrigerator?
 

Charlie_

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Hi - if the fridge was mine and given its age I'd have it repaired by manufacturer. Failing that I'd be disconnecting and testing the defrost heater as has been mentioned. I would not work to remove an RCD to solve an appliance trip, just saying.
This just has to be the best option.
The money they have already wasted for your time could have been used to get it repaired..
 

marconi

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Just a thought: If it was bought with a US plug on the cord, (and assuming it is 220-240V machine), which has been chopped off and replaced by a UK plug, you might want to check the polarity of the connection to confirm that the switching (ie for thermostats, door light, compressor start coil, defrost heater) are in the line rather than the neutral.
 

GBDamo

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might be worth measuring the baseline earth leakage on the circuit and then ramp testing the RCDs.

Could be oversensitive RCD coupled with a high baseline earth leakage on the circuits.

If its a big fancy Dan place, do they have loads of they USB charger sockets, PCs and the usual suspects.

The fridge may be performing as it always has but more 'leaky' accessories and appliances have been added.

long shot, but you never know.
 

ruston

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might be worth measuring the baseline earth leakage on the circuit and then ramp testing the RCDs.

Could be oversensitive RCD coupled with a high baseline earth leakage on the circuits.

If its a big fancy Dan place, do they have loads of they USB charger sockets, PCs and the usual suspects.

The fridge may be performing as it always has but more 'leaky' accessories and appliances have been added.

long shot, but you never know.
He hasn't got an earth leakage clamp meter .
 
Might be a little behind the curve here, but is it a Type AC RCD/RCBO, and is it worth trying a Type A instead?
Just a thought. Bash me if I’m being silly.
 
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